Water filtration on a whole new level!!

[TravisGRAYL]

Great question, Marcelm.

This is Travis - co-founder of GRAYL.

GRAYL doesn't rely on 'size exclusion' filtration like other filters with older technology. It uses this stuff - which was designed for NASA. http://www.spacefoundation.org/prog.../inducted-technologies/nanoceram-superfilters

GRAYL starts with a base of non-woven ceramics (just like old filters) but our technology doesn't stop there. Instead of little, tiny holes in the non-woven ceramics, the 3D matrix of much bigger holes are filled with a positively-charged mesh.

Four advantages to our technology:
1. Faster water flow - much faster (2L/minute for the filter, 1L/minute for the purifier)
2. Improved pathogen removal
3. The mesh also binds an array of chemicals that activated carbon alone can't catch
4. Powdered activated carbon inside the matrix has a much higher surface area than granulated or 'block' activated carbon

Filter technology has come a long way. GRAYL is just the first to employ the new stuff!

 

[TravisGRAYL]

There's got to be an o-ring or some sort of a seal in order to force the water into the main cylinder and not out the sides hence why it looks like it takes some effort to compress the two parts. That said, if the outside of the cup is wet, unless you dry it out, you could be getting a drip or two of contaminated water. How much bacteria does one need to consume to cause a health risk?

Right, Trinimon,

Travis from GRAYL here. Virtually no chance of cross-contamination between the 'dirty' and 'clean' sides. We engineered a silicone seal that is absolutely water tight - as independent testing confirms. The seal will never wear out, because you get a new one every time you change the purifier/filter.

And there is a 3.7cm gap between the top of the outer (dirty) cup and the lip of the inner (clean) cup. While it is certainly not impossible to catch a drip dirty water, with a little care and common sense, we think it will be very uncommon to do so.

 

[TravisGRAYL]

I hope I'm not interfering in this conversation, guys. Just really excited to see you guys talking about our little water filter!

Really enjoyed reading your questions (you guys obviously know about water filtration.) I'd be happy to answer your questions here or via email: info (at) thegrayl (dot) com

 

[memaquay]

Travis, I'm wondering if you could do a cost analysis next to comparable products; in other words, convince me to buy your product. I run a high school wilderness canoe club. We run three trips a year, the one in june lasting around 12 days. I have been using katadyn and MSR filters, but have found that the kids are pretty hard on the filters, and particularly with the Hikers, I only get a season out of them before something breaks. I would like to move to something that I charge the kids for and then they own it. Products like exstream water bottles are quite a bit cheaper than your product and claim to do the same thing. My primary concern is Giardia and Cryptosporidium. It looks like I would have to buy a separate filter for your product to deal with these problems.

Any thoughts?

 

[armeddodge]

will it filter out ghiardia?

 

[TravisGRAYL]

Travis, I'm wondering if you could do a cost analysis next to comparable products; in other words, convince me to buy your product. I run a high school wilderness canoe club. We run three trips a year, the one in june lasting around 12 days. I have been using katadyn and MSR filters, but have found that the kids are pretty hard on the filters, and particularly with the Hikers, I only get a season out of them before something breaks. I would like to move to something that I charge the kids for and then they own it. Products like exstream water bottles are quite a bit cheaper than your product and claim to do the same thing. My primary concern is Giardia and Cryptosporidium. It looks like I would have to buy a separate filter for your product to deal with these problems.

Any thoughts?

Hi Meaquay,

I want to be respectful of forum rules and not advertise. I can exchange specifics on a private chat... but in general:

MSR and Katadyn make great products, but they have drawbacks. The Katadyn Exstream uses 'Virustat', which is an iodine based purifier. Iodine is very effective, but many people don't like the taste.

GRAYL is stainless steel not plastic. And since you can pour freely into a bottle after filtering, 2 or 3 people can use a single filter. So you could buy fewer filters for all your kids.

I'll stop there, please contact me with more questions.

 

[TravisGRAYL]

will it filter out ghiardia?

Yes, armeddodge. The Purifier removes 99.999% of ghiardia.

 

[Farmboy]

Drinking water is everywhere now.

 

[Stevebot-7]

Anyone have information on how the Grayl handles changing weather? I know other types of filters need to be kept from freezing before use. Is the Grayl something I could throw in my backpack or on a belt pouch without worrying about the filter/purifier/other important pieces cracking or shrinking or otherwise failing?

How about if it gets hot, such as if I boil water and then pour it into the cup for filtering?

 

[memaquay]

Why would you filter boiled water?

 

[curseyou]

i wonder how it does against fluoride in city drinking water ?anybody know ? or is that a whole new ball game -removing flouride ?

Are you trying to protect the sanctity of your precious bodily fluids?
ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=iAHJCPoWCC8

 

[dagtaph]

Hi Meaquay,

I want to be respectful of forum rules and not advertise. I can exchange specifics on a private chat... but in general:

MSR and Katadyn make great products, but they have drawbacks. The Katadyn Exstream uses 'Virustat', which is an iodine based purifier. Iodine is very effective, but many people don't like the taste.

GRAYL is stainless steel not plastic. And since you can pour freely into a bottle after filtering, 2 or 3 people can use a single filter. So you could buy fewer filters for all your kids.

I'll stop there, please contact me with more questions.

I want to welcome you to this forum and say that it is great to have an expert here
It is probably a stupid question but could you tell me what dis/advantages of your product as compared to UV light sticks which could be put into a glass of water to disinfect it.
Several people highly recommended those sticks to me.

Thank you very much.

PS: another question, quite gross is it possible to filter urine with your filter? Please again pardon my ignorance I know very little about filtering.

 

[Kirby64]

First of all I would strongly recommend NOT using this product on its own. Let me explain;
When dealing with potential potable water sources we look for things called pathogens. A pathogen is defined as anything that can cause a disease. In term of water treatment we look at 3 types of pathogens;
1. Bacteria
2. viruses
3 protozoa.
Out of the 3, only the protozoa can be removed by mechanic straining, as seen used with this cup. That leaves you open to two out of the three pathogens in water. Norwalk virus, salmonella and certain strains of the notorious E.coli bacteria are very commonly found in surface water. Viruses and bacteria are both susceptible to oxidation though, which is good news because chlorine is an extremely good oxidation agent, hence, why we chlorinate our water as part of the water treatment process. Overall, I would say this cup is only useful as phase one of creating potable water when in the woods. Always carry some chlorine tablets with you to be sure. Trust me guys!
source: I'm a certified level 1 operator with my OIT.

 

[Kirby64]

I want to welcome you to this forum and say that it is great to have an expert here
It is probably a stupid question but could you tell me what dis/advantages of your product as compared to UV light sticks which could be put into a glass of water to disinfect it.
Several people highly recommended those sticks to me.

Thank you very much.

The problem with those UV sticks is that certain types of pathogens called protozoa are not susceptible to uv light. For example, crypto sparidium enters the environment in a "sporulated oocyst". This basically means it is hibernating and waiting to be ingested so it can latch onto your intestines. When in this state, the crypto hardens up it's outer layers and can withstand the uv light.

 

[dagtaph]

I want to welcome you to this forum and say that it is great to have an expert here
It is probably a stupid question but could you tell me what dis/advantages of your product as compared to UV light sticks which could be put into a glass of water to disinfect it.
Several people highly recommended those sticks to me.

Thank you very much.

The problem with those UV sticks is that certain types of pathogens called protozoa are not susceptible to uv light. For example, crypto sparidium enters the environment in a "sporulated oocyst". This basically means it is hibernating and waiting to be ingested so it can latch onto your intestines. When in this state, the crypto hardens up it's outer layers and can withstand the uv light.

very interesting. I know oocysts are very very difficult to destroy, if I remember correctly even short period of boiling does not kill them, you have to boil for something like 10 minutes before they die.

Do you know anything about Potassium permanganate for water purification? It is an oxidizing agent and should work the same way as chlorine. Thanks.

 

[Glockman1]

tagged

 

[Stevebot-7]

Why would you filter boiled water?

I figure it's best to ask now, rather than wonder in the future.

 

[Farmboy]

Trust me guys!
source: I'm a certified level 1 operator with my OIT

Operator-in-Training

An operator-in-training (OIT) certificate allows new operators to gain the one-year experience required to become a Class 1 operator. The minimum requirements to apply for an OIT certificate are:

Sorry, I have a hard time trusting anyone that says "trust me" and I'm government certified" in the same breath

I want to welcome you to this forum and say that it is great to have an expert here

Thank you very much.

Also the welcome was directed at Travis

 

[Tack Driver Armoury]

i wonder how it does against fluoride in city drinking water ?anybody know ? or is that a whole new ball game -removing flouride ?

Only two ways I'm aware of. Reverse osmosis, or distillation. You can get 1-gallon countertop stills in Canada, by the brand "Megahome" (such as MH943SBS) and others.

The problem with those UV sticks is that certain types of pathogens called protozoa are not susceptible to uv light. For example, crypto sparidium enters the environment in a "sporulated oocyst". This basically means it is hibernating and waiting to be ingested so it can latch onto your intestines. When in this state, the crypto hardens up it's outer layers and can withstand the uv light.

A lot of people misunderstand how UVC light works to "purify" water. It doesn't actually kill cryptosporidium and others like it, but instead sterilizes them so they cannot reproduce. And by the way, cryptosporidium is resistant to chlorine.

 

[Kirby64]

[/QUOTE] people misunderstand how UVC light works to "purify" water. It doesn't actually kill cryptosporidium and others like it, but instead sterilizes them so they cannot reproduce. And by the way, cryptosporidium is resistant to chlorine.[/QUOTE]

While cryptosparidium does have some resistance to chlorine, it is not completely resistant or immune to it as you have suggested. Also, suspended particles or "colloids" in water can shield these pathogens from the UV light. After the 2002 Walkerton incident, Ontario's drinking water systems and relevant regulations became some of the most stringent and highly regulated in the world. Under O/reg 169/03 schedule 1, we see the minimum microbial standards for drinking water are 0 or not detectable. (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_030169_e.htm). The primary oxidation agent used by all of our municipalities is chlorine in one form or another. If you are interested in how much chlorine is used, you can check out O/reg 170/03 on the e-laws website. I am not saying that chlorine is used alone in treating surface water, I am just trying to say that combining chlorine with a good filter is much safer than the filter alone. While I don't disagree with you, I think it's good practice to have a multi-barrier approach to creating potable water. This is all information I learned from government regulated courses and, while you may scoff at that, the same practices they teach are used in treating every municipalities water in Ontario.