WC-852 Surplus powder for .303Br ?

[h.letourneau]

I have one pound of surplus WC-852 rifle powder. I was told it is the same as H-450 or Win785. I want to use that powder to make some reload

for my Lee Enfield NoI markIII*. Is that powder suitable for the caliber or should I get rid of it. ? Can't find reloading data for the .303" using these powders.

Thanks,
Hugues.

 

[bearhunter]

If that WC852 is the same lot that I have, be careful because those surplus powders can really change between lots, it will do fine in your 303 Brit.

For my 303Brit load with that powder I use 49.0 grains under 174 grain BT bullets over CCI 200 primers. It gives me slightly under 2300fps.

It is very similar to W785 as well.

As mentioned and a CAVEAT to be aware of with surplus powders. They can vary to dangerous extremes between lots. They are made for commercial/corporate loaders and they will work up loads on each batch before loading cartridges for the market. I would guess there are a number of reasons for the powder to be surplussed but usually the reason is because there isn't enough of a batch left to fill a complete run of any given cartridge it would be suitable for.

Try a couple at the lowest charge on the table and work up from there. This powder has a very narrow working range with heavy bullets. W785 is just slightly faster so it should provide some safe load suggestions.

 

[h.letourneau]

If that WC852 is the same lot that I have, be careful because those surplus powders can really change between lots, it will do fine in your 303 Brit.

For my 303Brit load with that powder I use 49.0 grains under 174 grain BT bullets over CCI 200 primers. It gives me slightly under 2300fps.

It is very similar to W785 as well.

As mentioned and a CAVEAT to be aware of with surplus powders. They can vary to dangerous extremes between lots. They are made for commercial/corporate loaders and they will work up loads on each batch before loading cartridges for the market. I would guess there are a number of reasons for the powder to be surplussed but usually the reason is because there isn't enough of a batch left to fill a complete run of any given cartridge it would be suitable for.

Try a couple at the lowest charge on the table and work up from there. This powder has a very narrow working range with heavy bullets. W785 is just slightly faster so it should provide some safe load suggestions.

I haven't been able to find any loading data using H450 or W785. Are they still available somewhere? I will surely experiment with your suggestion. Thanks.

 

[Bowie]

I like this powder for heavy bullets in a 6.5x55, but mine was wayyyy hotter than published data. I initially tried the max load listed for a Mauser 96, and it showed pressure signs in a modern Sako, and chronographed about 200 fps faster than it should have.

 

[bearhunter]

I haven't been able to find any loading data using H450 or W785. Are they still available somewhere? I will surely experiment with your suggestion. Thanks.

Lyman #45 manual has H450 loads. Higginson's, the Canadian distributor for the powder, suggests a load of 49-50 grains under 174 grain bullets. As I said before, be careful and try your first bullets with 45 grains.

Like bowie says, this powder is meant for heavy for caliber bullets. He doesn't mention where his data came from though. Be careful with surplus powders for the reasons I mentioned and Bowie experienced. If you are careful, all will be well.

To bad you only have a pound of it. Not really enough to be useful for an extended time period over a few years of hunting and plinking

 

[h.letourneau]

Lyman #45 manual has H450 loads. Higginson's, the Canadian distributor for the powder, suggests a load of 49-50 grains under 174 grain bullets. As I said before, be careful and try your first bullets with 45 grains.

Like bowie says, this powder is meant for heavy for caliber bullets. He doesn't mention where his data came from though. Be careful with surplus powders for the reasons I mentioned and Bowie experienced. If you are careful, all will be well.

To bad you only have a pound of it. Not really enough to be useful for an extended time period over a few years of hunting and plinking

Well I also have a pound of WC845. I understand it is a bit faster (H335 ?). When I'm finished with those two oldies I will go back to the standard powder.

Thanks a lot for the info.
Hugues

 

[bearhunter]

Well I also have a pound of WC845. I understand it is a bit faster (H335 ?). When I'm finished with those two oldies I will go back to the standard powder.

Thanks a lot for the info.
Hugues

IMHO, it is a shame Higginson's no longer brings in several types of surplus powder. Not sure if it just isn't available or they just can't be bothered to do so.

h.letourneau, if you did your homework properly, rather than relying on other people to do it for you, life would be much simpler and you could save yourself a lot of anxiety and reload for about half the price you would with standard commercial offerings. A lot of the surplus powders offered much better performance and consistency than most off the shelf powders.

Many shooters just follow the loading manuals blindly. This isn't rocket science but definitely requires that you do your own due diligence and follow proper safety procedures.

If you are only an occasional shooter, 100 or less rounds per month, then stick with the off the shelf offerings. If you are a serious shooter and like to keep sharp, then look at those surplus powders with a careful eye.

When I first met old Tom Higginson, he was a veritable tome of information concerning reloading powders available at the time. I miss our conversations.

The company doesn't seem to bother anymore with a reasonable selection of surplus powders. I know they used to have a special agreement with Hogdon's that pretty much guaranteed them to be supplied with available powders. Maybe that is where the surplus powders came from.

Tom used to search it out all over the world. He picked it up by the tonne. He also did a lot of research on the powders before buying them and got all of the manufacturing specs as well. He needed those specs for I believe NRCAN to get permission to import the powders and distribute them to the public.

I remember him getting extremely frustrated because he had purchased about 10 tonnes of powder out of Europe and it was sitting in a warehouse in England, waiting for the British authorities to release it. Not sure how it worked out for him. Often the larger quantities of powder were sold overseas, where permitted or in the US. Wherever the most money and least amount of red tape made it more feasible.

All of the powders you mentioned are listed on the internet and there is a lot of information on them. Just type in the powder type/number on GOOGLE and you will likely get more information than you will ever need.

 

[h.letourneau]

IMHO, it is a shame Higginson's no longer brings in several types of surplus powder. Not sure if it just isn't available or they just can't be bothered to do so.

h.letourneau, if you did your homework properly, rather than relying on other people to do it for you, life would be much simpler and you could save yourself a lot of anxiety and reload for about half the price you would with standard commercial offerings. A lot of the surplus powders offered much better performance and consistency than most off the shelf powders.

Many shooters just follow the loading manuals blindly. This isn't rocket science but definitely requires that you do your own due diligence and follow proper safety procedures.

If you are only an occasional shooter, 100 or less rounds per month, then stick with the off the shelf offerings. If you are a serious shooter and like to keep sharp, then look at those surplus powders with a careful eye.

When I first met old Tom Higginson, he was a veritable tome of information concerning reloading powders available at the time. I miss our conversations.

The company doesn't seem to bother anymore with a reasonable selection of surplus powders. I know they used to have a special agreement with Hogdon's that pretty much guaranteed them to be supplied with available powders. Maybe that is where the surplus powders came from.

Tom used to search it out all over the world. He picked it up by the tonne. He also did a lot of research on the powders before buying them and got all of the manufacturing specs as well. He needed those specs for I believe NRCAN to get permission to import the powders and distribute them to the public.

I remember him getting extremely frustrated because he had purchased about 10 tonnes of powder out of Europe and it was sitting in a warehouse in England, waiting for the British authorities to release it. Not sure how it worked out for him. Often the larger quantities of powder were sold overseas, where permitted or in the US. Wherever the most money and least amount of red tape made it more feasible.

All of the powders you mentioned are listed on the internet and there is a lot of information on them. Just type in the powder type/number on GOOGLE and you will likely get more information than you will ever need.

I will surely do.
Thanks for your time.

 

[purple]

There are 2 types of WC852. One is slow burning and that is the one that Higginson/Ammomart sold. The other is faster burning, somewhere near H380. I used to buy a lot of bulk powder from Ammomart, especially the ball types H335OEM and X2924 for the .223 and WC755 for the .308 Win. We went thru pails full of X2924 to reload a pi$$-pot full of .223 for gopher guns. X2924 has a burn rate between W748 and BLC2 and is excellent for the .223. WC755 is outstanding in a .308 Win bolt gun, but is a bit too slow to use in a semi-auto. Too bad these are no longer available.

Tom Higginson once insisted on sending me a complementary pound of WC852 to try and I found that it was great in a .30-06 bolt gun with a 180gr bullet. I never got into WC852 beyond that as I had already settled on IMR4350, IMR4831 and H4831 to use as a slow burners in the .270Win, .280Rem, 7x57 and .30-06 with heavy bullets. Tom was a good guy and a great crusader against the federal gun control legislation. Whenever I spoke to him he would ask if us westerners were really pouring oil on the ground to prevent our buried firearms from rusting.

 

[bearhunter]

Purple, Higginson's sold both lots of WC852. I have both of them on hand in AmmoMart boxes. They both have different lot numbers but are listed as being the same burning rate on the suggested cross over data. I now have the fast lot marked with a big red sticker and a notation that it is faster than the other lot. You're right, the fast lot is very similar to H380.

My point to the OP was that he be very careful when using this powder, which I completely agree is excellent for its intended purposes.

I also wanted to point out to him that because of confusion created by manufacturers when they recycle an identification number it can lead to misconceptions all the way down the chain to the end user that can and do create dangerous conditions.

Thanks for the input about the two powder speeds.