Webley MK1 + HP38 = ???? Need your help !

olivierlamothe

olivierlamothe

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Hi guys !

I looked around and i could not find any data about reloading .455 webley with hp-38. I guess it's because it's too hot for a 130 years old black powder gun ???

I was looking for unique, trailboss, 2400, bluedot and bullsey but i could not find some any where... I called all the shops 100km around.

So i'm now at the time where i'm tinking about using what i have in stock.

I hope some one can help me !

Thanks,

Olivier
 
Well OP, were it me ... would be very loathe to use such a high intensity fast burning powder as HP38, in a black powder era revolver.
Not much room for error there.
My antiques never get loaded with anything faster than Unique ... even that speed of powder could be double charged and slip past one's notice. Not likely, but possible.
Most of my .44's and .45's get charged with around 10-11 grains of 2400. Impossible to double charge with this bulky powder.
I work up to original BP velocities over the chronograph to establish working load 2400 charges.
 
Look up OLD lyman loading manuals. They had a lot of good loads for 455 over modern powders with lead bullets. I'd stick to minimum loads. I'm comfortable using unique or bullseye..but yes, you do need to pay attention.
 
I've used Unique in my .45ACP-'shaved' versions...but you got me thinking...has anyone here ever experimented with Trailboss in them? That would seem to have some potential.
 
Guys the OP cant find UNIQUE so he needs ideas from other members on what other powders can be used with slow presure curve.
He has some pistol BP so he cant go wrong there but i know theres other powders beiung used other than Unique.
Win 3855 used to have a bunch of difffrent powders he used in the 44 russian with good results maby he can post that info again slow presure curve was accurate to.
 
dingus said:
Guys the OP cant find UNIQUE so he needs ideas from other members on what other powders can be used with slow presure curve.
He has some pistol BP so he cant go wrong there but i know theres other powders beiung used other than Unique.
Win 3855 used to have a bunch of difffrent powders he used in the 44 russian with good results maby he can post that info again slow presure curve was accurate to.
Click to expand...

OP and I have enjoyed a lively PM exchange!.
He is bound and determined to start off on the correct antique handloading procedure.

Other than Unique and 2400 powders, I personally have very little first hand experience to offer.
Have tryed 700x(CIL C300), and 4759. Both of which were good, predictable, .45acp/.44 special powders in my limited use there of.

These days .... It's a very good thing to have a few spare pounds of the powders one likes best.
 
vviking said:
These days .... It's a very good thing to have a few spare pounds of the powders one likes best.
Click to expand...

May I add.
A chronograph IMO, is mandatory when one heads off into unknown pressure smokeless powder handloading territory, and, .. all this being without for the most part ... reliable, empirical, lab tested ... published data.

Not a lot of room for kaboom-error when one's max pressure is limited to 12,000 PSI or so ...
 
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olivierlamothe said:
Hi guys !

I looked around and i could not find any data about reloading .455 webley with hp-38. I guess it's because it's too hot for a 130 years old black powder gun ???

I was looking for unique, trailboss, 2400, bluedot and bullsey but i could not find some any where... I called all the shops 100km around.

So i'm now at the time where i'm tinking about using what i have in stock.

I hope some one can help me !

Thanks,

Olivier
Click to expand...
Budget Shooter Supply in BC has Trailboss if you want to try that powder he will ship. I have been using 3.9 grainsTrailboss with 200 grain lead bullets in my 44 DA S&W Russian's and am happy with the performance. Have shot several thousand rounds in my guns over the last 2 years with no issues.

http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/catalog/Rifle__Pistol_Reloading_Components_2.cfm
 
yes 2400 has a low presure curve simlar to BP , id love to know if anyones tryed it in 45 acp ?
I know its been used in 44 russian with good results so i cant see why it wouldnt work in 45 acp.
Its hard to find to tho right now.
Trail boss should be good in 45 acp to. just get the right powder charge.
 
Dingus. And all.
My regular common everyday load is 10-10.5 grains of 2400, in .45 AR brass under a soft cast PB .454" 240 grain Keith swc. Heavy crimp.
This in a .453 bored Mk1 Webley, with cyl. throats opened to .452.

This 2400 powder is very predictable as one works on up, there are no surprises to be found here. But, at these very low pressures, expect to see much unburned powder laying in the bore. I have noticed no adverse effects from this dirty burning tho.

As you told me long ago, 2400 does indeed do better in larger cap. cases than it does in smaller. .45acp capacity is at the extreme small end sizing for suitability imo.
Much better this powder, and burn cleaner in .44 special or .45 schofield capacity cases.

I use 2400 because it is so safe and predictable. At full BP equivelent pressure loads, it produces BP or better vels. over the chrono ... without the risk of unexpected pressure spikes.
 
vviking said:
Dingus. And all.
My regular common everyday load is 10-10.5 grains of 2400, in .45 AR brass under a soft cast PB .454" 240 grain Keith swc. Heavy crimp.
This in a .453 bored Mk1 Webley, with cyl. throats opened to .452.

This 2400 powder is very predictable as one works on up, there are no surprises to be found here. But, at these very low pressures, expect to see much unburned powder laying in the bore. I have noticed no adverse effects from this dirty burning tho.

As you told me long ago, 2400 does indeed do better in larger cap. cases than it does in smaller. .45acp capacity is at the extreme small end sizing for suitability imo.
Much better this powder, and burn cleaner in .44 special or .45 schofield capacity cases.

I use 2400 because it is so safe and predictable. At full BP equivelent pressure loads, it produces BP or better vels. over the chrono ... without the risk of unexpected pressure spikes.
Click to expand...

yes it is supose to be better in the longer cases, i was told a fellow was useing 2400 in the 44 russian with good results tho thats not a long case 8 gr load was still under 600 fps. ive used it in a upgraded MKI** in longer 45 schofield cases and it pretty much all burnt that was a stout load tho.
just for thos that dont get it 2400 has a low presure curve simlar to BP thats why alot of guys use it if they dont want to use BP in there handguns.
 
Thanks Vviking for the help!

Today at the range an experimented olg guy told me that using hp-38 in the webley with minmum data for 45acp would fine he clamed to have done it in the past with his webley mk1.

I have 3 lbs of hp-38 could you look at a load i could safly use with the webley as i can't find any other powder you mantioned hearlyer. I refer to you guy to not make any mistakes.

Thanks

Olivier
 
I respect the care and prudence that you are approaching this antique handloading venture with, olivier.
But, I cannot help you with any HP 38 .455 loading data. Sorry.

Were it me?. I'd hold off on loading until I found some more appropriate powder for use in a black powder era revolver..
 
dingus said:
yes it is supose to be better in the longer cases, i was told a fellow was useing 2400 in the 44 russian with good results tho thats not a long case 8 gr load was still under 600 fps. ive used it in a upgraded MKI** in longer 45 schofield cases and it pretty much all burnt that was a stout load tho.
just for thos that dont get it 2400 has a low presure curve simlar to BP thats why alot of guys use it if they dont want to use BP in there handguns.
Click to expand...

In my Mk1 Webley, using trimmed back to .950" .45 win mag brass, and my .44Special Reichrevolver ... both are pushing 240gr softcast swc's ...
I use 10.5 grains 2400 at 700fps for plinking/target. 11 grains 2400 at 750fps for bush carry.
These loads have proven safe in my revolvers ..... if you choose to try them in yours .... work up over a chrono from well below.

In shorter .45ar brass I mostly load down to 10 grains of 2400 under the same 240 grains of lead. A soft and pleasant shooting load, that in no way strains or harms my precious old revolvers.
 
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