Webley MKI double asterisk: Questions from a Young Greenhorn

J

jfigga

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Dear CGN members that possess a wealth of knowledge,

I recently purchased a Webley MKI** (double asterisk) in decent condition. This Webley has been modified to accept .45 ACP with moon clips. I've been doing a lot of YouTubeing today to learn as much as I can about the gun and has found a few things which I would like clarification on.

Most videos I have seen have people saying you shouldn't put factory ammo through this Webley because it is not designed for it and it's not safe. However the seller told me that I could put factory ammo through it.

Then I came across this thread; https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/824730-Antique-database-proofmarks-serials-and-other-info

In the thread it says the MI**

MK I**; This modification was done to old stocks of Mark I’s and II’s. Tey fitted a 4 inch Mark IV barrel, a Mark V cylinder plus the new type cylinder cam and lever as used on the Mark IV. This upgrade was done to accommodate the extra power of the new cordite round. The left hand side of the frame was drilled and tapped to accept the cam.
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So I assume that is why the seller told me I could put factory ammo through it.

I just wanted to be certain I have this correct that I could buy .45 ACP and put it through this safely because it's been modified.

Please share your wisdom!
 
Not entirely safe no, .455 Webley has a maximum pressure around 13,000psi if I recall correctly whereas 45acp has a maximum pressure closer to 20,00psi so there most definitely could be factory ammo that will kaboom the gun. Also of note, keep in mind that the MKI** modification only proofed the gun to fire smokeless-it is still using a frame designed for the blackpowder rounds and more worn-out examples can still potentially be a safety hazard(ie: the Italian 6.5 Vetterli conversions) But if you can find some factory ammo that is within the operating pressures or load your own reasonable handloads then the gun will last another 100+ years.
 
From what I’ve read .45 ACP loads are higher in pressure than Webley proof loads. They also aren’t designed for jacketed bullets. Tons of information on them on line.
 
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There are factory "cowboy" loads with lead bullets out there that'll work. Dont recall the brand name, maybe blazer?? Even with the thicker iron barrel, cylinder and top strap of the mk 1** I wouldnt use extended amounts of factory 45acp. The pressure for one, and the hard copper jacket will wear down the softer lands of the barrel rifling quicker.
 
ChewyChewbacca said:
From what I’ve read .45 ACP loads are higher in pressure than Webley proof loads. Personally I wouldn’t buy one that has been modified. They also aren’t designed for jacketed bullets. Tons of information on them on line.
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I've actually had a ton of trouble finding information about them online. So if you could point me in the right direction that'd be great.
 
infidel29 said:
There are factory "cowboy" loads with lead bullets out there that'll work. Dont recall the brand name, maybe blazer?? Even with the thicker iron barrel, cylinder and top strap of the mk 1** I wouldnt use extended amounts of factory 45acp. The pressure for one, and the hard copper jacket will wear down the softer lands of the barrel rifling quicker.
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Any idea where one could obtain said cowboy loads? I'm having a trouble locating them. I've checked Cabella's and CanadaAmmo..... any suggestions?
 
jfigga said:
I've actually had a ton of trouble finding information about them online. So if you could point me in the right direction that'd be great.
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I started by Googling Webley Mark 1, then when I looked over everything on the page at the bottom is related searches. Looked through some of those.
Then I Googled “Reloading for Webley Mark 1. Rinse and repeat.
Then I googled “Reloading for Webley Mark 1 with Trail Boss. Rinse and repeat.
Don’t be afraid to go deeper in the pages also. Quite often I have found some real nuggets of info on the the back pages.
As far as using parts from different guns to make a special one I didn’t stumble on any of those but if you put in the magic query something may pop up. Will likely be an expensive proposition. You won’t find any ammo at Cabelas or Canada Ammo. From what I have been able to find,Fiocchi makes a round for the Webley (with mixed reviews.). There may be others. My Google Fu is lacking sometimes. Other than that you have to build your own. All the components can be bought in Canada. Then you can start googling how to cast bullets?, what is the best bullet lube? Best way to lube cast bullets? Start with the above and you’ll find YouTube videos on them. Like everything else on the internet you have to sort the wheat from the chafe. Have fun on the search. You will be awhile.
 
I am aware of some modern production "factory" ammo available in .455 that non-shaved Webleys can safely fire, but I am not aware of reduced load .45ACP. But I've never looked for it either. Call Rusty Wood, they sell some of the .455. Good luck!
 
I went through this same thing a few years ago with my Mark1**. Allow me to save you a lot of time, reload your own .45 ACP for it.

Contact Jethunter here on CGN, he makes very good 265 grain hollow base projectiles made for these guns that shoot fantastic. I was not a reloader before getting one of these guns, so I had to learn everything from scratch. It’s not hard at all. The hardest part at the time was there was a major powder shortage at the time, so finding Trail boss and Unique was very hard.

I now have the largest containers they sell them in and a progressive press, so reloading is no fuss. Single stages can be bought for much less though if you only intend to reload for antiques.

It’s a nice gun you got yourself, congrats.
 
Justins1877 said:
I went through this same thing a few years ago with my Mark1**. Allow me to save you a lot of time, reload your own .45 ACP for it.

Contact Jethunter here on CGN, he makes very good 265 grain hollow base projectiles made for these guns that shoot fantastic. I was not a reloader before getting one of these guns, so I had to learn everything from scratch. It’s not hard at all. The hardest part at the time was there was a major powder shortage at the time, so finding Trail boss and Unique was very hard.

I now have the largest containers they sell them in and a progressive press, so reloading is no fuss. Single stages can be bought for much less though if you only intend to reload for antiques.

It’s a nice gun you got yourself, congrats.
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Thanks Justins1877. I don't really have any space for a bullet press.... I live in an apartment. When I was shopping for an antique I specifically asked the dealer for something I could buy ammo for and this is what he suggested. I'm a bit disappointed now tbh...

But it looks like Wolf might make a .45 ACP lead bullet that isn't jacketed and produces a load low enough for this gun. Just waiting to hear back from them on the load it produces.
 
Wolf 200 gr 45 ACP SWC rounds are loaded hot.

If you have a shaved Webley, you have to reload.

Actually an untouched 455 Webley have availability of factory and custom ammo.

Rusty Woods sell an excellent custom 455 ammo and Fiocchi offer some.
 
I have tried Wolf .45 acp through mine, both the LRN and TCR and they shoot like garbage. The lead is too hard for it to engage the rifling.
As mentioned, Rusty Wood does sell .45 acp “Webley rounds” for about $1 a shot. I have not tried them though, so I cannot comment on them.
 
I will second or perhaps third the call for you to reload for this revolver. You can also get some .45 Auto Rim cases, then you do not need to use the 1/4, 1/2 or full moon clips to shoot your revolver.

Webleys, unlike every other revolver ever built, have the forcing cone built into each chamber of the cylinder. With this in mind, you can drive up pressures very quickly and burst the cylinder if you try to cram too much powder in the case. Stick to nice mild loads of whatever you are shooting for the old girl.

As you do not mention where you are, you might want to check around at whatever club you shoot at, find some grumpy old guy will all of his fingers and ask if he reloads, strike up a conversation and let him know you'd like to learn.

Scott
 
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