Webley question

Kveldulf

Kveldulf

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I just bought a Webley Mark VI .455 from my brother. It looks great and fires very well (one-and-one-half inches at 15 yards from a pistol rest) but the cylinder does not lock up very tightly when cocked. My local gunsmith just says it's a "Wobbly Webley" and they are all like that. :bangHead:

Does anyone know how, exactly, Webleys lock up? The bolt from the bottom of the frame that looks like it should do the job is only 55 thou wide, going into a 130 thou groove. From pictures I've seen, all Mark VIs are like that (earlier models had narrow grooves).

Is there a website somewhere explaining these guns?

Thanks vermillion. :D
 
With your thumb on the hammer and your other hand on the cylinder, pull the trigger back and see how tight the lockup is.
 
Yes, do what Colin says ... if the revolver is fully functional and complete, you should see a second bolt has risen from the frame and engaged the cylinder, locking it up very securely.

Webley revolvers have both a "cylinder stop", which first engages to position the cylinder but allows considerable "play", and also a "cylinder lock" which only engages when the hammer and trigger fully back - i.e. when the revolver is being fired. Most folks are only familiar with American revolver designs having a single bolt, which performs both functions ... This difference is the source of the "Wobbly Webley" misnomer, even though the Webley cylinder is arguably more secure when the piece is being fired.

In fact the "locking bolt" on many Webley designs is a solid lug integral with the top rear of the trigger - i.e. it "must" rise and engage the cylinder when the trigger is pulled ... and also very unlikely not to be present and working, unless very excessively worn or broken off ...
 
GrantR said:
Yes, do what Colin says ... if the revolver is fully functional and complete, you should see a second bolt has risen from the frame and engaged the cylinder, locking it up very securely.

Webley revolvers have both a "cylinder stop", which first engages to position the cylinder but allows considerable "play", and also a "cylinder lock" which only engages when the hammer and trigger fully back - i.e. when the revolver is being fired. Most folks are only familiar with American revolver designs having a single bolt, which performs both functions ... This difference is the source of the "Wobbly Webley" misnomer, even though the Webley cylinder is arguably more secure when the piece is being fired.

In fact the "locking bolt" on many Webley designs is a solid lug integral with the top rear of the trigger - i.e. it "must" rise and engage the cylinder when the trigger is pulled ... and also very unlikely not to be present and working, unless very excessively worn or broken off ...
Click to expand...
Yes, I can see the second locking bolt. However, it seems to prevent the cylinder from turning clockwise only; there is nothing stopping it from moving counterclockwise except the pawl or hand that rotates the cylinder. The ratchet on the back of the cylinder appears to be a bit worn. If the pawl is intended as part of the lockup, that would expalin the problem.

When the hammer is not cocked, the cylinder has about two millimetres of free play. Cocking reduces this to one millimetre.

Incidentally, I tried explaining this to the gunsmith. He told me that's not how revolvers work. Pistols, especially British pistols, are not his specialty. :rolleyes:

Thank you for your advice. At least I know I'm on the right track. :)
 
Actually, my own MkVI Webley is in pretty good shape, and the cylinder movement on it in the two conditions you describe (i.e. uncocked and cocked) is even greater than 2 and 1 mm, respectively ....

However, I notice you said "Cocking reduces this to one millimetre" ... are you also holding the trigger back fully while checking? Just being cocked is not the full test ... note that cocking the revolver does draw the trigger back quite a distance but not all the way - in this state, the locking bolt has been raised, but the revolver is really in the same condition as it would be in if you are shooting double action and the hammer has been fully cocked but not yet released to fall. It takes some additional backward movement of the trigger to trip the hammer, and it is only with the trigger fully back that complete lockup occurs. Actually, I have found that you don't have to try to hold the hammer at full #### and the trigger fully back (which is awkward) - just dry-fire the revolver in double-action mode, and then do your check of the cylinder with the trigger still held fully back. The more pressure on the trigger at the end of its travel (simulating the grip you'd likely have with the revolver in a state of discharge/recoil) the better ....

If you still have noticeable easy cylinder play in that condition, then there is a problem. With my revolver, the only way I can get any cylinder movement in this condition is by applying considerable rotational force - which is actually camming the locking bolt down against the pressure on the trigger - something which doesn't occur when the revolver is fired, since the recoil forces work backward, not rotationally. Even if you do still have a bit of cylinder play in this condition, unless you are getting noticeable lead shaving/spitting, the amount of play you describe shouldn't be that much of a concern ....
 
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