Webley question

RacerRick: You know, I suppose, that you undeniably stole that revolver, at that price!

Collector's Source, in Acton Ontario, currently have four Webley Mark VI revolvers listed. Although not known for "bargain prices", the prices they have on these revolvers don't seem too bad .... can't say whether they'd dicker a bit on their asking prices. Don't think I can "live link", as they are not a sponsor here, but here are the URL's (with the "http" broken up to keep them "dead") -
- Commercial production, likely refinished, $595 - ht tp://www.collectorssource.com/handguns/webley-mark-vi-commercial-r9621.html
- 1918-dated military issue, $695 - ht tp://www.collectorssource.com/handguns/webley-mark-vi-revolver-455-cal-r10500.html
- 1916-dated military issue, $695 - ht tp://www.collectorssource.com/handguns/webley-mk-vi-revolver-r10603.html
- another 1916=dated military issue, $695 - ht tp://www.collectorssource.com/handguns/webley-mk-vi-revolver-r10604.html
- One other interesting piece they have is a .455 R.I.C. (Royal Irish Constabulary) Model No. 1 revolver. Normally an RIC would qualify as an antique, but this one does not as its serial number is very close to the end of the range .... and this model was made until 1913 - listed at $895. (In case you are unfamiliar with it, the R.I.C. is a solid frame design, rather than break-action, and accordingly must be loaded and unloaded one round at a time through a side-gate.) - ht tp://www.collectorssource.com/handguns/webley-ric-no-1-455-cal-r10615.html

As for this type of bullet being available for purchase, somebody not too long ago mentioned on some forum (not sure if it was here, or elsewhere) of a bullet-maker in Ontario selling this style ..... but I don't seem to have bookmarked the link (not needing to buy them) and will have to try to search out the post.
 
GrantR said:
As for the .455 versus .38 part of your question: it depends a lot on what you want such a revolver for ..... from a historical perspective, the .455's are the earliest (introduced in the 1870's and 1880's and continuing as the primary-issue British military handgun caliber into the 1920's) The .38/.380 revolver cartridge was adopted after that .... and the primary British-issue military revolver chambering that round was actually the Enfield No. 2 revolver ... which, as a top-break design, is somewhat similar to a Webley, but not identical by any means. Webley revolvers were also used as "secondary issue" during WWII, however.

From a strictly Canadian military history perspective, it amazes me that so few people know that this country has never had any Webley revolver design (or any other British design, for that matter) as its primary-issue military handgun - rather, they have always been American designs! (One minor exception: the RCAF adopted the .38 Enfield in the 1930's .... but the numbers of those acquired were literally only in the hundreds ..... "Minor" because the true primary-issue handgun for Canadian military personnel during WWII was the Smith & Wesson Military & Police Model revolver, of which Canada acquired over 118,000 according to Clive Law in "Canadian Military Handguns, 1855-1985" ....)

For a Canadian military-issue revolver of the 20th Century, think Smith & Wesson! For WWI, it was the S&W Hand Ejector chambered in .455 -
smith06.jpg


.... and for WWII, its "little brother" - the S&W M&P chambered in .38 -
sampwmampp06_zpsd5242e2b.jpg
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Just curiuos top pic Grant is your holster a Jordan's from Toronto?
 
RacerRick, I purchased some cast .455 hollow base Webley bullets for my Mk III from "Shooter's Den" in Sudbury, Ont. a few years back. Might be worth checking with them.
 
reloader said:
Just curiuos top pic Grant is your holster a Jordan's from Toronto?
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That particular holster has no maker's markings on it all. I assume that you ask because it looks like one marked with that manufacturer's name, but in fact all officer's holsters in that time-frame were made to an established pattern laid down in the British War Department's "List of Changes", although such LoC directives were not common for "officer's kit". The "Sam Browne" type of rig had become pretty standard for officers quite a bit earlier (.... note, for example, that the entry states that the pistol case is to be "of the usual shape" ....) but I suspect the timing of this LoC directive - 1900 - likely had something to do with too much variety developing in officer's personal equipment during the Boer War. A formal LoC entry like this would govern such rigs privately purchased by officers. -

LoC10440.gif


Notwithstanding that the War Department "official patterns" of Webley service revolvers had 4" barrels as standard until 1915 (when the 6" Mark Vi Webley was adopted), note that the diagram above shows a holster capable of housing a long-barreled revolver, because officers were not "issued" with their revolvers (or any of their other kit for that matter) but were required to purchase everything privately at personal expense. They could accordingly purchase either a commercially-produced version of the "official service revolver" or any of a wide variety of other models, and regardless of what they chose they tended to favour longer-barreled revolvers. Mind you, I do have one example of this flap-covered "officer's pattern" of holster which will accommodate only a 4"-barrelled revolver .... a size some officers preferred -

webvhlst_zps9c3f2158.jpg


I refer to this flap-covered style specifically as an "officer's pattern" because in fact the pattern of "pistol case" (holster) mandated for issue to Other Ranks was an "open-top" style, in which the revolver was secured by a strap passing over top -

loc3598.jpg


Note that this LoC entry refers to making the pistol cases long enough to cover the barrel and front sight completely, and such holsters might well resemble the officer's pattern in over-all length, because of the size and barrel length (5 7/8") of the Enfield service revolver introduced in 1879. However, when the Enfield was replaced as the standard-issue service revolver in 1887 by the 4" 455 Webley revolver, these Other Ranks holsters were standardized at a shorter length, as seen in this entry .... although it is dated even later than that, because it is introducing a new feature being adopted then ..... but happens to be handy to show the length and appearance of the usual "Other Ranks" holster -

LoC9041.jpg
 
MWP said:
RacerRick, I purchased some cast .455 hollow base Webley bullets for my Mk III from "Shooter's Den" in Sudbury, Ont. a few years back. Might be worth checking with them.
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That sounds mighty familiar, and was likely the place I mentioned having heard about as a Canadian source for such bullets .....
 
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JimmieA. said:
Thanks for the response. I didn't realize that the Webley wasn't issued to Canadians. In terms of the history I feel more related to the British than the Americans. I guess I think the Webley has enough historic value to want to try to get a Mark IV-VI and than a Mark I or II. I want to get an antique hand gun that has a more or less modern cartridge. I cannot afford a Colt SAA so the Webley seems like a good choice interms of price and availability.
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They were issused to the Canadian military they have the brodarrow on them. They just were never used and sat on a few ships sailing around. So many have never been fired by the military but some were sent to the military they just never used them.

The Mark 1 are all antique beacause of the age the Marks 2 as well it's the 3 and the 4 that arn't because some were upgraded some weren't so you have to check them.

The reason you can't have a 38 antique firearm is because its written on the list of no you can't have that same as 45 long colt is not an aquite firearm and 22 Lr. Just the way the law is written.

In double action mode its a heavy trigger but single action if you #### it is very nice.

Now many of the webelys have had the cylinders shaved down after ww2 so they could fire the 45 acp since there was so much surplud ammo around. Now fireing GI ammo (plated ammo) is a no no because 45 acp is basicly a webley proof load and with plated ammo and a slightly smaller barrel the pressure is to high so they're knowen for blowing up.

The webley mark 1 and 2 were black powder loads only some have a smokeless stamp saying they're ok to shoot smokeless as they've been tested ie proof tested which is basicly load a round 3 times stronger then normal and see if the gun blows up if it doesn't it's considered safe if it goes kaboom it failed. If you want to shoot 45 acp you use moon clips or rimmed 45 acp rounds and you load down to the lowest reload of a 45 acp and use lead rounds and it should be safe to fire lots of rounds as it's near a 455 round. They have diffren't ammo with diffren't loads because some firearms are black powder only and they can handle a lower load only. The diffrences between the models are some are upgraded and stronger then the orginals with changeable parts if something breaks.


I shot 6 rounds of +p hollow point ammo to test mine after the first shot I inspected it then I went behind the dirt and pulled the string agian to fire the next round. Before I did that I checked the barrel and found out it was wider then most so it was ok to fire the ammo and that was my proof testing because I shoot a much lighter load Im not conserned with it blowing up.

In double action mode the trigger pull is long in single action (you #### the hammer) it's very nice.

I also bought a smith and wesson model 22 from the custom shop its case hardened and looks very nice it shoots 45 acp with moon clips and is a new firearm ie remake oft he old one.

I've also shot 455 out of it as well even with the shaved cylinder if fired fine sometimes it wont because the fireing pin wont reach the cylinteder you can tell they've been cut down if you see a gap between the cylinder and the frame in the back
 
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Some really good information in this thread. Thanks to all.
I have an Enfield .38 but just reseaching with the CFA about importing my fathers Webley .38 from the UK. Kept in a cupboard for 60 years and not quite 'legal' regarding UK laws but will see how far I can get with it. He was home guard (to young to serve) and purchased it from a Lancaster pilot late 40's, so we'd like to keep it in the family.
 
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