Webley question

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JimmieA.

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I posted this question in the pistols section and had minimal response. Than I found this section so I'm reposting it here.

I am interested in purchasing a Webley Mark IV-VI and a Mark I or II at a later time. I started out looking for the .455 calibre but have seen the .38 S&W a lot cheaper. I do not have a 12(6). I have just finished reading a book written about this gun (The Webley Service Revolver by Robert Maze) and it basically doesn't even mention the .38 S&W (.38/200) calibre which came out just around WWII. I guess a person can purchase new ammo for either calibre at a cost, .38 maybe a little easier. I guess I look at this purchase as a nice to have, no intention to pay $1200 for a Mark VI example that is barely shootable, trigger pull of over 10#. The Mark IVs I have seen in .38 S&W is listed at $350-$500 at an expensive reseller. I realize that a real antique gun is a lot more expensive.

Looking for peoples opinions that know about these guns. Opinions about the two calibers as well. I am a little confused about the various .455 ammo as well, as it changed a half dozen times. If I'm correct the Enfield gun is a close copy but not the same gun at all? I don't need these guns just a want/nice to have if the cost is reasonable. This model of firearm is an important part of our history, similar to the 1911 in the USA.

If a person on here wants to sell me a Mark IV to VI let me know. I want a shooter not a show piece, would consider a .45ACP conversion as well. I have the $$ burning a hole in my pocket HaHa!
 
Lots of places carry 455 webley MKII . I just did some research and picked up some last week for a friend with an old pistol. .455 Webley, MKI, MKII, and .455 Colt are all interchangeable, however, the .455 Webley MKII is the only ammo that I seem to found so far on the market.
 
not all .38's will be 12.6 but alot are. the .455's are nice and there is non antique versions of them that run cheaper ammo is .455 mk2 and reloading really has to be done

the .45 acp conversions even the post 1898 ones need handloaded ammo with light load and cast bullets as most .45 acp ammo is over the proof load of the more modern .455's
 
I learned to shoot revolvers with .455 naval and police Webley's; they all seemed to have fairly stiff trigger pulls. Some naval officers had short barreld Webleys, but seamen usually got issued a 6 inch barrel revolver. The fixed sights are not as good as newer designs, but were quite adequate at close range. I doubt anyone had custom trigger jobs done on any of these issued guns.

At the ranges I found the military .38's 5 or 6 inch Webley barrel gave good velocity, and only fair accuracy with the fixed sights, but they had very little punch. The Enfields tended to have poorer blueing finishes, and were generally set up as spurless hammer double action only shooters (although some did have spurs) I liked the automatic ejection of fired cases, and found them faster to reload single rounds than swing out cylinders.
 
I gave you already some answers in your other post, a Webley VI is not a $1,200 piece, they run from $450 to 800 depending on condition, you just have to keep your eyes open, many are offered at gun shows at the low end of the price scale or here on the EE sometimes. The 38 S&W is not necessarily a common caliber, most antique guys or people owning older guns reload them. The 455 cartridge didn't change a lot, just do a google and read wikipedia. I have not seen a Webley VI converted to 45 ACP, mostly Mark I, II or III. Antique Marks start at $1,200. The heavy trigger pull is only in DA, most people shoot SA, if you check trigger pull for modern DA/SA semis (like SIG 226), you will find that they are in the same range. May I ask what handguns you already own?
 
scianna54 said:
I gave you already some answers in your other post, a Webley VI is not a $1,200 piece, they run from $450 to 800 depending on condition, you just have to keep your eyes open, many are offered at gun shows at the low end of the price scale or here on the EE sometimes. The 38 S&W is not necessarily a common caliber, most antique guys or people owning older guns reload them. The 455 cartridge didn't change a lot, just do a google and read wikipedia. I have not seen a Webley VI converted to 45 ACP, mostly Mark I, II or III. Antique Marks start at $1,200. The heavy trigger pull is only in DA, most people shoot SA, if you check trigger pull for modern DA/SA semis (like SIG 226), you will find that they are in the same range. May I ask what handguns you already own?
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yes modern DA revolvers have a heavy trigger pull but its for a reason it act like a safety when being carried
 
JimmieA. said:
I posted this question in the pistols section and had minimal response. Than I found this section so I'm reposting it here.

I am interested in purchasing a Webley Mark IV-VI and a Mark I or II at a later time. I started out looking for the .455 calibre but have seen the .38 S&W a lot cheaper. I do not have a 12(6). I have just finished reading a book written about this gun (The Webley Service Revolver by Robert Maze) and it basically doesn't even mention the .38 S&W (.38/200) calibre which came out just around WWII. I guess a person can purchase new ammo for either calibre at a cost, .38 maybe a little easier. I guess I look at this purchase as a nice to have, no intention to pay $1200 for a Mark VI example that is barely shootable, trigger pull of over 10#. The Mark IVs I have seen in .38 S&W is listed at $350-$500 at an expensive reseller. I realize that a real antique gun is a lot more expensive.

Looking for peoples opinions that know about these guns. Opinions about the two calibers as well. I am a little confused about the various .455 ammo as well, as it changed a half dozen times. If I'm correct the Enfield gun is a close copy but not the same gun at all? I don't need these guns just a want/nice to have if the cost is reasonable. This model of firearm is an important part of our history, similar to the 1911 in the USA.

If a person on here wants to sell me a Mark IV to VI let me know. I want a shooter not a show piece, would consider a .45ACP conversion as well. I have the $$ burning a hole in my pocket HaHa!
Click to expand...

its funny you mention the webley as important to our history, like the 1911 is to the US. In all the reading Ive done, neither the rcmp nor the local constabulary were ever issued the webleys. Rather I believe they were issued S&W or the enfields. I think some of our doughboys in ww1 used them, but otherwise I dont think we ever used them officially. Someone more knowledgeable than I will surely correct me if im wrong.
 
Infidel is correct .... no model of Webley has ever been a primary-issue revolver for either the Canadian military or the Mounted Police. (One thing to keep in mind, of course, is that until after WWI, military officers were required to supply all of their own kit - including weapons - at their own expense. Accordingly, all sorts of handguns have been carried by officers.)

The "primary-issue" revolver lists for both (i.e. prior to going to semi-automatic pistols entirely), with dates of adoption/introduction, are as follows:

Canadian Military -
- 1855: Colt Model 1851 "Navy" revolver (London Model; .36 cap & ball)
- 1885: Colt Model 1878 Double Action revolver (.45 Colt)
- 1900: Colt New Service revolver (.45 Colt)
- 1914: Colt Government Model semi-automatic pistol (.45 ACP)
- 1915: Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector revolver (.455 Webley)
- 1935: Enfield No. 2 revolver (.380; RCAF only, relatively small quantity)
- 1939: Smith & Wesson Military & Police revolver (.380/.38 S&W)

NWMP/RNWMP/RCMP -
- 1874: Adams revolver (.450)
- 1882: Enfield MkII revolver (.455/.476)
- 1905: Colt New Service revolver (.455 originally, later also .45 Colt)
- 1952: Smith & Wesson Model 10 (.38 Special)

Having said that, I do like Webleys and own several of them .....
 
"Colt's New Service Revolver" Mullin lists two Boer War purchases: 852 cal 45 NSs shipped to the Cdn militia and a further order of about 700 in .455" , both shipments in 1900.
 
green said:
"Colt's New Service Revolver" Mullin lists two Boer War purchases: 852 cal 45 NSs shipped to the Cdn militia and a further order of about 700 in .455" , both shipments in 1900.
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Hi:

Can you clarify your reference (i.e. I am not familiar with the author or publication) and perhaps even provide me with a scan of the relevant page and also any specific references he credits i.e. specific Colt shipment records, or whatever? Is it just a brief reference in passing, or is there more detail given? For example, Wilkerson's "Colt Double Action Revolver, Model of 1878" (a copy of which I do have in my library) has an entire chapter - although an admittedly rather short one - devoted to the Canada Militia 1885 purchase of revolvers.

I ask because there has been some confusion (at least in my perception) regarding the chambering of the Colt New Service revolvers acquired for Boer War service by Canada. Clive Law's research, as documented in "Canadian Military Handguns, 1855-1985", led him to state that they were .45 Colt. That certainly seemed logical, and even likely since the revolvers available in 1899 to arm the earliest contingents of Canadian troops for South Africa were the .45 Caliber M'78 Colt Double Action revolvers acquired in 1885. It would make sense that for logistical reasons alone, the Militia department would prefer to stay with the same chambering. (I also gather that Law may have had access only to certain records, and thus may have seen reference only to the initial purchase of .45 revolvers.) Until now, I have been relying primarily on Law's book.

However, others have indicated the revolvers were chambered in .455 ..... including the Canadian War Museum website "Canada and the South African War" online exhibit ..... which actually shows a revolver in their collection reportedly chambered in .455, which I suspected might either have been misidentified or else have come from a later acquisition unknown to Clive Law.

Proponents of the two points of view seemed to imply that the Colt NS revolvers acquired for Boer War service were either one caliber or the other, but what you have posted certainly clarifies things immensely - i.e. that there were actually two different batches of revolvers, one in .45 Colt and another in .455. Although at first blush it seems a bit odd that the Militia Department would "switch horses in midstream" on the cartridge chambering in this way, such a change could well be explained by the fact that, other than the First and Second Contingents, all other Canadian units sent to South Africa were apparently raised and equipped by Canada for service in the British Army, paid by the War Department and presumably supplied in the field by the WD (who, if anything, would have been rather annoyed if they had to supply .45 Colt cartridges for just a few Canucks, when all other "Colonial" troops were also using the standard .455 service revolver cartridge.)

I would love to have a copy of this reference, to keep with my copy of Law's book, to clear up this anomaly.
 
"Colts New Service Revolver" Mullin Collector Grade Publications ISBN 0-88935-498-7
The authour cites as a reference a two part monograph by Lt Col Robt Whittington USA retd "Canadian Colts for the Boer War".
 
Grant:
Mullins did a book dedicated to the Colt New Service. Collector Grade Publications has it for sale on his website. I have a copy here and it is a good book. He did hit a lot of the highlights and I believe he also got the Canadian Navy contract in there as well.
cheers,
W
 
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