Weird longbranch

Kegcaissy said:
It's cool to know about the bedding but for the rest?? Any refurbishing marks? The LB barrel is a replacement?
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Your barrel is dated (19)44 on the right top edge of the Knox form.
So I would believe it to be the original barrel and not a replacement.

Long Branch manufactured and fitted 5 groove MkI barrels in every year of production.

I have Long Branch MkI 5 groove barrels dated:
41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 49, 50, 51, 54, 55

Grooved and Plain hanguards were fitted at the same time, there doesn't seem to be any distinction between them, though they seem to be less common on 1950 and later rifles.

Shimming of barrels was very common, I've seen everything from wooden veneer glued in to bisonite, electrical insulating hardboard, business card stock, epoxy bedding compound, fibreglass resin, cork sheets, RTV gasket material and bits of rubber.

I've seen hanguards which are relieved so that they do not contact the barrel, and others which have had rubber dampeners glued to them to hold the barrel in a specific location.

All sorts of tricks were tried for target shooting.
 
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My apologies maple_leaf_eh, but I know of no rifle in the world the requires "down pressure" on the barrel. And the standard Remington 700 has 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip and just like the Enfield rifle this up pressure is used to "tune" the rifle by controlling barrel vibrations.[/QUOTE]

On the No1 LE the inner band puts down ward pressure on the barrel. A target mod for the No1 SRb was to place a band on the fore end behind the nose cap to hold a spring loaded stud which placed down ward pressure on the barrel.
 
green said:
My apologies maple_leaf_eh, but I know of no rifle in the world the requires "down pressure" on the barrel. And the standard Remington 700 has 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip and just like the Enfield rifle this up pressure is used to "tune" the rifle by controlling barrel vibrations.
Click to expand...

On the No1 LE the inner band puts down ward pressure on the barrel. A target mod for the No1 SRb was to place a band on the fore end behind the nose cap to hold a spring loaded stud which placed down ward pressure on the barrel.[/QUOTE]

green

Right now my man cave in the basement is being remodeled and all my Enfield reference books and are packed away. But the inner band was use to control barrel vibrations at the center node point of the barrel. And the standard No.1 had a spring and stud applying upward pressure on the barrel in the fore end tip.

Up pressure is used to "tune" barrel vibrations and improve accuracy, if you read the "Canadian Marksman" you will see the center bedding method with cork packing at the fore end tip.

The Canadian Marksman (Bedding the 7.62mm No.4 Rifle) - 1965
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=305-The-Canadian-Marksman-%28Bedding-the-7.62mm-No.4-Rifle%29-1965

Below is a No.1 Australian range rifle modified for improved accuracy, the modifications were used to ensure constant up pressure at the for end tip. The two added screws are used to pull the rear of the stock into hard contact with the receiver ring. And the light colored wood shims were used to regulate and maintain a constant up pressure at the fore end tip. This Enfield rifle had a rubber grommet added to the nose cap that surrounded the barrel and they were called "rubber nose" Enfields. And my point being the fore stock applied up pressure with all sorts of added packing and devices used to dampen barrel vibrations.

blocksadjustable-1_zpsilvuxyta.jpg


Bottom line even modern rifles have a raised section applying up pressure at the fore end tip to control barrel vibrations and thus accuracy.

RSbedding_0303E_zps36d5122b.jpg
 
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Do not have "Cdn Marksman" but do have a copy of "Textbook of Small Arms 1929" HMSO
On page 46 regarding the No1 rifle
"In the assembled rifle there are three important metal-on-wood bearing points where even bearings must be assured. they are as follows:
(3) The barrel is caused to bear lightly on the woodwork 1/2 inch in the rear of the inner band(48) by means of a spring acting in the medium of the latter."
The inner band does exert down ward pressure.
 
Thank you lee enfield!

But again, i already know that long branch were making 5 grooved barrels, usually these are from british service and have import markings, the question in the original post is why this one is 5 grooved AND stamped C broad arrow marking it for canadian service?

Is this one from a batch to make 4t that didn't pass the tests?
Do some services, for example, the navy was using only 5 grooved rifles?
 
Kegcaissy said:
Thank you lee enfield!

But again, i already know that long branch were making 5 grooved barrels, usually these are from british service and have import markings, the question in the original post is why this one is 5 grooved AND stamped C broad arrow marking it for canadian service?

Is this one from a batch to make 4t that didn't pass the tests?
Do some services, for example, the navy was using only 5 grooved rifles?
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no, a war was on, they were churning out as many rifles as they could, and no one outside the factory doors was counting grooves. if the canadian government said "sell us 20000 rifles, we need them yesterday," they got whatever was avalible. they didnt care about what style sight, what colour wood, or if the barrel had 5 grooves. you will note that the only distinction either army made was No4 Mk1, and No4 Mk1*
 
green said:
Do not have "Cdn Marksman" but do have a copy of "Textbook of Small Arms 1929" HMSO
On page 46 regarding the No1 rifle
"In the assembled rifle there are three important metal-on-wood bearing points where even bearings must be assured. they are as follows:
(3) The barrel is caused to bear lightly on the woodwork 1/2 inch in the rear of the inner band(48) by means of a spring acting in the medium of the latter."
The inner band does exert down ward pressure.
Click to expand...

Rifle barrels on Lee Enfield's, regardless of the mark, have upward pressure applied at or near the muzzle. BigEd knows what he's talking about.
 
Kegcaissy said:
Hi!

I got that weird 1944 longbranch today, 5 grooved barrel, c broad arrow markings everywhere, rear handguard is not grooved, no import marks, no ftr marks... There was a rubber piece like some sort of bedding abour 6" from the muzzle. This is the first time that i see a canadian service rifle that is not 2 grooved, except for 4t. Can someone give me more info? By the way the rifle do not have rcmp markings.

Thank you
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Kegcaissy

The rubber piece added is a cheap and poor fix at bedding, you have wood shrinkage at the rear area of the fore stock. This means the fore stock can rock back and forth at the forward trigger guard screw like a kids teeter totter. If you shoot your Enfield rifle this way you might damage the rear draws area and even cause the stock to crack.

Below the rear draws area of your fore stock is loose at the areas of the red arrows. And when it becomes loose at this area, the rear of the stock moves upward and up pressure is reduced at the fore end tip.

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And when you add shims below at the white arrows, this does two things.
1. It pushes the stock to the rear and into contact the receiver ring.
2. The shimming forces the rear of the stock "down" and raises the fore end tip "up" and increases up pressure.

IMGP2022-1_zps6def22c0.jpg


The king screw or forward trigger guard screw is the fulcrum point of the fore stock. If you add shims in the rear the front of the stock moves up, if you decrease the shims the front of the stock moves down. And you shim the stock to have 2 to 7 pounds of "UP" pressure at the fore end tip and you adjust the up pressure weight to "TUNE" your Enfield to shoot the best groups.

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Now before you do any shimming or anything else keep applying a 50/50 mix of raw linseed oil and turpentine to the stock until it will not take any more oil. This "may" hydrate the stock and cause the wood to swell and shimming may not be necessary or in the least reduce the amount of shimming.

Below only thin shims were needed to tighten up the No.4 fore stock below. These thin shims are cut from brown paper grocery bags and super glued in place, then sanded to the right thickness and also to center the barrel in the fore stock barrel channel. The light colored wooden shims at the top help prevent the rear of the stock from moving upward and loosing up pressure. See the Canadian Marksman and the No.4 Canadian manual for bedding instructions.

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Once you understand that wood shrinkage and wood crush are your biggest problems fixing the bedding is easy. My first Enfield rifle had a loose fore stock and the rifle was stringing all the shots vertically and at 50 yards I was lucky when firing five shots if 3 or 4 shots even hit the paper.

And after reading everything I could find on the subject of bedding and shimming the fore stock on my first Enfield the bottom photo is the result.

range-day-2_zps3767632e.jpg
 
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bigedp51 said:
Kegcaissy


Once you understand that wood shrinkage and wood crush are your biggest problems fixing the bedding is easy. My first Enfield rifle had a loose fore stock and the rifle was stringing all the shots vertically and at 50 yards I was lucky when firing five shots if 3 or 4 shots even hit the paper.

And after reading everything I could find on the subject of bedding and shimming the fore stock on my first Enfield the bottom photo is the result.

range-day-2_zps3767632e.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow, nice target! I like how you explained bedding the rifle using simple easy to acquire things like brown paper. This isn't quite rocket science!

'flexing the barrel down to contact the stock'; that foregoing hooferaw was funny...
 
Kegcaissy said:
Thanks for all the info concerning bedding!
Click to expand...

All of you have a ton of Enfield material available at your finger tips at the top of the page in the stickys, and all you need to do is click on the link below and read.

Lee Enfield On-line Knowledge Libraries (Index of Articles)
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/260959-Lee-Enfield-On-line-Knowledge-Libraries-(Index-of-Articles)

The two links below from the sticky have the best bedding info.

1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (Complete Set)
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=335-1991-No.4-%28All-Marks%29-.303-Rifle-Manuals-%28Complete-Set%29

The Canadian Marksman (Bedding the 7.62mm No.4 Rifle) - 1965
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=305-The-Canadian-Marksman-%28Bedding-the-7.62mm-No.4-Rifle%29-1965

Below Capt. Peter Laidler is the senior British Armourer in the U.K. and wrote severial books on the Enfield rifle and he hangs out at Milsurps Enfield forum. Below Peter is joking with me saying he is going to "borrow" my bedding photo images at the next Armourers instruction course and say the images are his. In one posting I said these old Enfield stocks were as dry as a popcorn fart. And again Peter said humorously he was going to "borrow" my popcorn joke, the next night Peter reported back he had the people in his pub roaring laughing by saying he was dry as a popcorn fart and needed a beer.

laidler_zpsezdgbiyt.jpg


Bottom line, there are quite a few very knowledgeable Enfield people at Milsurps and a great place to get information.
 
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