weird max charge imr-3031 whit 170 gr in 30-30

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bud69

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Hi
I have a question for you gurus of reload
I buy a pound of imr 3031 whit 200 sierra 170fn bullet to make my hunting load this year for deer and black bear
But now i see some problem whit the max charge for this combo some book say 28.8 some 29.2 and some 32 and another one say 31.5 at max

Someone reload a 30-30 whit 170gr bullet and imr-3031 can give me is load and if you have some load data just to secure me
If is important the rifle is a winchester 94 pre 64 i use fed brass and cci primer
 
The old loading charts showed 32 or 33 grains of 3031 in a 30-30 with 170 grain bullet.
This used to be almost the standard load for a 30-30.
Same powder, same bullet weights, same rifles.
 
Hodgdon make IMR, 29.2 is hodgdons max, in general they are pretty conservative with their max load when listing for old cartridges.
Anyway, all load data is a guideline only, your rifle max may vary from published data and from anyone elses pet loads.
You need to work up a load to find a charge you are comfortable with in your rifle. I'd start at 28gr and go up to 30gr in .5gr increases. See how that goes and tweak it from there.
 
H4831 said:
The old loading charts showed 32 or 33 grains of 3031 in a 30-30 with 170 grain bullet.
This used to be almost the standard load for a 30-30.
Same powder, same bullet weights, same rifles.
Click to expand...

Is there even enough room in the case for 33gr and a 170gr pellet? I'd think that would be a tight squeeze
 
@h4831 some guys at my range load 30gr under a 170gr but in 3 of 5 book is over max i dont whant to broke or scrap this rifle
@hitzy that the plan 28 to 30 in .5 increase but i wait for my peep the skinner barrel mount the buckhorn sight is horrible for me over 50m
 
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A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and Hodgdon's is listing max pressure as 35,800 CUP and this is for older 30-30 rifles made of softer steels still in use. The same holds true for their .303 Britsh loads with max pressure at 43,000 cup when actual max pressure is 46,000 cup or 49,000 psi.

The max pressure for the 30-30 is 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi and even at this pressure my primers are still backed out of my 30-30 cases. Meaning the max rated pressure is not great enough to cause the brass to stretch to meet the bolt face.


Cartridge Pressure Standards
http://kwk.us/pressures.html


30-30 Winchester Load Data
http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/30-30-winchester/

Reloading The .30/30 Rifle
http://www.reloadammo.com/3030load.htm

Cartridge: .30-30 Winchester
http://www.realguns.com/loads/3030r.htm
 
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@bigedp51 so you say the max at 36000cup +- 29 gn is on the low side of pressure for old action use so im ok to load 30gn at my max for testing ? In more modern action ?
Im learning each day
 
When the fired case has the primer protruding from the rear of the case a fraction of the chamber pressure is being applied to the bolt face. P.O. Ackley of the Ackley improved cartridge fame removed the locking bolts from a 30-30 Winchester and with a dry oil free chamber and cartridge and remotely fired the rifle and nothing happened. Meaning at 38,000 cup the rear of the case never touched the bolt face. Meaning 38,000 cup chamber pressure is not great enough to cause the brass to stretch in the base of case.

Like I said before loading data is ball park and many 30-30 bullets are under sized.

Below a Hornady 170 grain flat point for the 30-30 at .3075

170grain004_zps96343ebf.jpg


And the nose forward of the cannelure is .2996
170grain003_zpsa4974651.jpg


I have been shooting my 30-30 Winchester 94 with the upper load data that H4831 posted for over 30 years without problem. As I said make a work up load and watch the primers and as long as they are protruding you are applying very little pressure on the bolt face.
 
IMR 3031 was the old standby for the 30-30 for many years. I loaded 31 or 32 grains of it [in several rifles] behind the 170 right
up until I discovered LEVEREVOLUTION powder.

Now I am loading 36 grains of that behind the 170 for superb accuracy and an extra 150 - 200 fps from the 3031 loads.

As bigedP51 stated, if the primer is backed out a tad, the pressure is still low. Add more powder, lol.

Regards, Dave.
 
I used to load 33 grains of 3031 with a 170 grain bullet. P.O. Ackley lists 33 grains in his loading table.
I have little du Pont loading book, marked on the front, "New Addition." In it they show 32 grains of 3031.
I once noted how much 3031 it took to keep the primer flat with the base of the case and going from memory it seems to me that 30 grains let the primer protrude.
I also don't buy this bit about the old 30-30 Winchester's being weak. The cartridge was designed to drive a 170 grain bullet at 2220 fps and that is far higher than the loads in the modern manuals will do.
I have a 94 made in 1912 and I load the heaviest loads we're talking about in it, with absolutely no sign of it being too much. Even Kamlooky was shooting it with those loads.
However, as has been stated, all 30-30loadings changed when we could buy LVR powder!
Don't want to change the subject, but I sure wish I had some 38-55 ammo to try in my nice 110 year old Marlin Model 93, with an absolute spectacular bore!
 
H4831............what do you need ammo or brass.........? I have plenty of brass if you need some.

My standard load for all the 94 30-30s I have owned has been 32 gns of IMR3031 and what ever 170 gn bullet I could find.
 
I just went downstairs and pulled out all my 30-30 ammunition and measured the primer protrusion.

Factory loaded Winchester 170 grain, primer protrusion .006 average.

My reloads, Winchester brass, 150 grain Hornady, 38 grains of 748, primer protrusion .002. Hornady manual lists 38.9 as max and in a workup load I went as high as 40 grains but the 38 grain load shot the best.

If I remember correctly as long as the primer is protruding and the only thing touching the bolt face, the primer is only putting 800 psi on the bolt face. When the rear of the 30-30 case does fully contact the bolt face at 42,000 psi chamber pressure the bolt thrust is roughly 5800 psi.

Bottom line the factory loaded ammunition and my reloads above are well below the max chamber pressure of 42,000 psi. So again factory loaded ammunition and some reloading data is conservative because the 30-30 first came out in 1894 and rifles of that era were made of softer steels.
 
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@kawicrash thank !
@c-fbmi so 32gn of imr-3031 whit a 170gr which rifle win 94 or 336 or bolt action ?
@ bigedp51 what sign of pressure i need to watch whit 30+gn load ?
 
bud69 said:
@kawicrash thank !
@c-fbmi so 32gn of imr-3031 whit a 170gr which rifle win 94 or 336 or bolt action ?
@ bigedp51 what sign of pressure i need to watch whit 30+gn load ?
Click to expand...


I believe I mentioned in my post.........."for all the 94 30-30s I've owned"..........at the present time that numbers about a dozen and probably 2 dozen over the years......94 meaning "Winchester model of 1894" lever action rifle as designed by John Moses Browning.
 
bud69 said:
bigedp51 what sign of pressure i need to watch whit 30+gn load ?
Click to expand...

I can't give you pressure figures and all I can tell you is if the primer is protruding you are not putting the load on the bolt face the rifle was designed to take.

"BUT" the down side to flush primers is the base of the case stretches to meet the bolt face. Meaning if the case stretches enough it can cause case head separations. So how you resize your cases will have a effect on case life, meaning is the case headspacing on the rim or the shoulder.

In over 30 years of reloading my 30-30 I have never had a case head separation and my cases die of split necks. But my .303 Enfield rifles with Winchester brass will start to have case head separations after the third full length resizing. And this is only 4,000 psi higher chamber pressure than the 30-30.

You have people here who load their 30-30 "hotter" than I do and no one said anything about case head separations. So just be careful and check your cases with a bent paper clip or wire for thinning in the base web area.

I have a Winchester 94 Trapper model with a 16 inch barrel and almost all my hunting was in the wood, so hot loads were not needed. I always thought of my 30-30 as a Contender pistol with a butt stock added. ;)
 
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