Well in the past couple months I've been having some trouble with my reloads. First had the problem couple months ago at the range while firing my VZ 58 in 556. Was at the end of my second mag when I got a click when I pulled the trigger. First thought that I'd forgotten powder or primer but when I opened the action the brass came out with no bullet. Upon inspection of the bore it appeared a bullet was stuck in there. Having no cleaning rod I left the rifle to be cleared later at home. Went on to my m95 and first round got the click sound. What the hell is going on? I opened the action and bullet was gone plus a bunch of powder came out. Noticed the powder was a weird golden colour and expanded resembling vermiculite. So called it quits with that rifle too. Next time I had my m95 out I had another round with the same result as the last time, plugged bore and nasty looking powder. VZ was acting up in the same way this past weekend. Couple rounds had a real low report like a 22 and I checked the bore to make sure the bullets exited, which they did. One of the rounds had the plugged barrel with weird powder and regular looking powder compacted like it had been highly compressed. Very confused with this and just wondering if you guys have any ideas. Thinking my primers are whacked or or or I've no clue. Any help is much appreciated.
Weird stuff happening
- Thread starter jongun
- Start date
Canadian_Zuk
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Pickering, Ontario
Are you wet tumbling your brass?
Sounds like your powder is getting contaminated. Do you clean off the lube after resizing and do you let the brass FULLY dry or are you the kind of reloader who feel compelled to reload them soon after you think they're dry enough?
Canadian_Zuk
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Pickering, Ontario
Yeah, that was my first thought. A primer alone is strong enough to push the bullet into the barrel, this sounds like what is happening to you. The fact you say the powder was a weird golden colour sounds like it was contaminated with water or water based case lube otherwise the primer would have ignited it. My guess is your brass had moisture inside from wet tumbling or snow/rain from your last shooting session.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Moisture or possibly case lube left over from the resizing process.
I always retumble my recently sized cases to eliminate possible contamination from case lube.
maybe or maybe not
I've seen the yellow powder before; its when the primer goes off but doesn't light the powder. Usually that's from big cases, large charges of hard to light powders, cold weather and mild primers or some combination of those. Never seen it with .223 before, but there always a first time for everything.
Beyond making sure your cases are free of moisture and lube. (Spray lube?) try a primer swap. CCI primers by any chance?
Beyond making sure your cases are free of moisture and lube. (Spray lube?) try a primer swap. CCI primers by any chance?
Powder (like TNT) is a yellow colour. The graphite coating makes it black. If the primer does not ignite the powder, it blows the graphite off.
If the case is empty (no powder) the empty space absorbs the power and the bullet will often stay in the case.
If the case has powder that does not ignite, the primer energy pops the bullet out and it sticks in the throat or barrel.
You did not tell us what bullet and powder you are using. If it is a 55gr bullet, or lighter and ball powder, this could be the result of a mild primer. To cure it, use the magnum CCI or Winchester primer and a firm crimp.
If the case is empty (no powder) the empty space absorbs the power and the bullet will often stay in the case.
If the case has powder that does not ignite, the primer energy pops the bullet out and it sticks in the throat or barrel.
You did not tell us what bullet and powder you are using. If it is a 55gr bullet, or lighter and ball powder, this could be the result of a mild primer. To cure it, use the magnum CCI or Winchester primer and a firm crimp.
It's happened with cfe 223 in the VZ using 55gn vmax bullets as well as my cast bators. M95 was varget with Lee 205gn cast bullets. I use CCI primers in both cartridges. Weird that I'm only having this problem now after over two years reloading. I've loaded right after lubing and resizing for two years with no negative consequences and the last loads I made up for the VZ the cases were sized weeks before. Haven't had the problem with any other cartridges so I'm still pretty puzzled. Gonna take all the precautions to eliminate possible contamination and go from there. Got a couple weeks off starting this weekend so I'm gonna try n get out shooting ass much as possible to see if I can't get these bugs worked out.
Where you storing your powders? Sounds like they've gotten damp. There's no fixing that.
The primer alone is enough to send the bullet into the barrel. Squib loads. No or wet powder will do it. Wet doesn't do anything to primers. Very much doubt spray lube will either.
The primer alone is enough to send the bullet into the barrel. Squib loads. No or wet powder will do it. Wet doesn't do anything to primers. Very much doubt spray lube will either.
Powders are stored in my garage in their original containers. Doubting damp powder from storage since I've been storing my powder like this for the past couple years. Powder looks fine when loading too.!Wanna say it's primers as I've had them for well over a year so maybe they've been effected by humidity. Use the same primers in my 7.62x25 loads without a single problem with hundreds of rounds fired so yeah think primers are ruled out haha.
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Canadian_Zuk
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Pickering, Ontario
Hmmm, Powder is very hygroscopic (attracts moisture). If it's very cold in your garage where you store your powder and you bring a pound inside, make sure you leave the lid on until the pound of powder equalizes it's temperature with the room your loading in. A jug of cold powder opened up in a warm room will pic up moisture from the air when it condenses on the cold powder. Like when glasses fog up as soon as you walk inside in the winter.
Well the garage was closed off by the former owners so it's more like another room in the basement just unfinished. All reloading is done in there and finished ammo stored there as well. Never had this problem before and can't really think of anything I've changed in my reloading practices.
I saw that a few years ago in a friends .308 using W748.
We pulled a few rounds apart and the powder looked and smelled OK but when I did a load up for one of my rifles using the same pound of powder - but different brass and primers - we saw the same problem. As the powder was the only thing in common we figured it was a good bet it was bad even though it appeared to be fine.
Guess it's possible some powders are more sensitive than others. Vargets all gone but I've still a good amount of cfe left. I'll make up some loads with different powders and see what happens. Really like the cfe but varget I can do without. Will report back after the range this weekend.
I don't think it's primer or lube issues. It sounds like wet powder. Wet powder doesn't ignite.
If the primer has enough punch to push the bullet up the bore then it sounds like the primer worked OK. I don't think it's case lube. Most case lubes don't prevent ignition unless you're using way too much.
The description of the powder is what happens when powder is wet - it expands and looks like yellowish vermiculite. And it goes inert. Which is exactly as described here.
We know the powder probably got wet AFTER it was put in the case, for 2 reasons:
1. because it metered/poured fine - if it was already wet prior to reloading then it would have plugged the measure or refused to pour. You would have noticed.
2. Only a few of the cartridges misfired, the rest were fine. If the powder was bad before it was reloaded then all of it should have been bad. That tells us that there was likely residual water left in a few of the cases but not all of them.
Most likely residual water from wet tumbling. If the powder is stored is a sealed container then it was fine and doesn't pick up moisture from the air, even in a dampish environemnt.
Water trapped in the brass can stay there for weeks. If you need to dry brass, put it on a pan in an oven set at 100C for 20 minutes then take it out and let it cool. You might need to re-think your inspection procedures - you should have caught this at the reloading stage.
If the primer has enough punch to push the bullet up the bore then it sounds like the primer worked OK. I don't think it's case lube. Most case lubes don't prevent ignition unless you're using way too much.
The description of the powder is what happens when powder is wet - it expands and looks like yellowish vermiculite. And it goes inert. Which is exactly as described here.
We know the powder probably got wet AFTER it was put in the case, for 2 reasons:
1. because it metered/poured fine - if it was already wet prior to reloading then it would have plugged the measure or refused to pour. You would have noticed.
2. Only a few of the cartridges misfired, the rest were fine. If the powder was bad before it was reloaded then all of it should have been bad. That tells us that there was likely residual water left in a few of the cases but not all of them.
Most likely residual water from wet tumbling. If the powder is stored is a sealed container then it was fine and doesn't pick up moisture from the air, even in a dampish environemnt.
Water trapped in the brass can stay there for weeks. If you need to dry brass, put it on a pan in an oven set at 100C for 20 minutes then take it out and let it cool. You might need to re-think your inspection procedures - you should have caught this at the reloading stage.
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gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This may happen when lubing bottle neck cases. when Too much lube on the lube pad, case gets pressed in to the pad and neck of the case goubles the lube with the mouth. This lube goes down the neck when you stand up the case by gravity. When you charge the case, powder gets contaminated by this lube and thus with time can contaminate primer as well. I don't know your process during case prep, Reduce amount of lube used during resizing. It may be the cause.
