Well, Now They've Declared War.....

Deckard said:
Ahh, but we're just not the *right* minority. We're not a politically-correct minority kissing liberal ass for handouts.
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Okay, that's it. I'm marrying my FN. Does that make me a protected minority?
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We could all become devotees of a religion that worships firearms (or are we already?). Then take our case to court over government interference with our religious beliefs. Could that work?
 
DaveMachine,

I am not yet in the fight. I applied for a SAP in NB and despite an initial refusal it was granted because my application was dated prior to the 17 April deadline. Since the SAP wasn't refused, I could not initiate a reference hearing. Shortly thereafter I was advised that I am posted to Edmonton this summer. There was no point in applying for another SAP in NB (which would have been refused) because I wouldn't be there long enough to go through with the court date.

I will start the SAP refusal process again when I get to Alberta in late August and see where it takes me. However, I am not particularly interested in heading a funded legal challenge at this time. My military duties are such that they could very well interefere at short notice with court dates, etc. In other words, due to circumstances beyond my control I could act as a reliable "figure-head" for the legal challenge.

There are others on this board who are much further along in the SAP Reference Hearing process than I am, and who may have the time to pursue the matter with consistency. I can't speak for them regarding interest in receiving donations to assist with proper legal representation, so we will have to wait for someone with the time and inclination to step forward.

Although I fully intend to pursue a Reference Hearing of my own this Fall, I am doing so primarily to make myself a fiscal and legal inconvenience to the government. I can't afford legal representation, and I can't even be sure of my day-to-day availability for court dates. I have no illusion about winning, but at the very least the government will have to show up in court, pay legal expenses, etc. Even if I can't physically be there on the date in question. In other words, I will be pursuing a reference hearing primarily to send a message of displeasure to the government.

Thanks for your support, but other CGN members have a much better chance of achieving success for the reasons I have mentioned above. Our member "Klunk" in Alberta immediately leaps to mind, provided he is willing and able to engage legal representation and accept donated funds. But as I said, I can't speak to the desires or willingness of others. What I will say is that if somebody has the available time and commitment to head up the cause, I will happily contribute $100 of my own as seed money for legal fees.

Regards,

Mark C
 
My military duties are such that they could very well interefere at short notice with court dates, etc. In other words, due to circumstances beyond my control I could act as a reliable "figure-head" for the legal challenge.
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Alrighty...might as well bash on with this.

I previously posted in the general forum looking for assistance to take on the 12(x) shooting ban....which is a bit of a no-no here without permission

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=82331

Unfortunately....despite my persistence I CANNOT get a YES or NO answer from Greentips(board Admin)as to wether or not I may 'canvas' for a lawyer supported legal case.

Regardless of that,unlike Bartok, I am currently at a base posting which means very little, if any, time away saving the world from the forces of evil. (after 17 years in a 'front line' unit its a lovely break) I HAVE the time to go after this issue aggresively. Also, due to my location in rural Alberta I have a much better chance of winning a 'reference hearing'.

Now....as the lawyer explained to me....only a few people need to win a reference hearing and this will force the Government to repeal the 12(x) ban. Its called "law by judge" meaning if enough judges agree a law is wrong that this creates enormous pressure for the Gov. to 'can' said law.

All the lawyers here and most of the judges are gun owners.

The lawyer I spoke with (and am seeing again next Wednesday) is very excited about this hearing. I guess they get tired of divorces and DUI's and like the idea of challenging the Government :wink:

He gave me 3 options:

1: $200-$300 and he would help with initial 'case filing'
2: $500-$600 and he would arrange for ALL paperwork and forms to be prepared(I would still be on my own in court)
3:$1500 He would 'be with me' for the entire proceeding

Obviously I would like to go with option 3. Im not looking for the CGN members to pay for the whole deal. Just enough 'help' that I can fill in the rest myself.

THIS CAN BE WON....WE CAN GET THIS BS REPEALED

Incedentally...I have had about 15 replies from that post. Thankyou all and I will get back to you all via private message
 
DaveMachine said:
Get a (FRAUD ALERT) account up and running :D

gogogogogo
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I have a few bucks laying around a (FRAUD ALERT) account and would be happy to donate to a legal fund for this venture. Based on Greentips requirements, I will wait and see, but having a (FRAUD ALERT) or EMT option is bonus.

Regards, Brent
 
Brent Schmidt said:
DaveMachine said:
Get a (FRAUD ALERT) account up and running :D

gogogogogo
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I have a few bucks laying around a (FRAUD ALERT) account and would be happy to donate to a legal fund for this venture. Based on Greentips requirements, I will wait and see, but having a (FRAUD ALERT) or EMT option is bonus.

Regards, Brent
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same hear
simon
 
badboybeeson said:
Brent Schmidt said:
DaveMachine said:
Get a (FRAUD ALERT) account up and running :D

gogogogogo
Click to expand...

I have a few bucks laying around a (FRAUD ALERT) account and would be happy to donate to a legal fund for this venture. Based on Greentips requirements, I will wait and see, but having a (FRAUD ALERT) or EMT option is bonus.

Regards, Brent
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same hear
simon
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me too
 
contact148 said:
badboybeeson said:
Brent Schmidt said:
DaveMachine said:
Get a (FRAUD ALERT) account up and running :D

gogogogogo
Click to expand...

I have a few bucks laying around a (FRAUD ALERT) account and would be happy to donate to a legal fund for this venture. Based on Greentips requirements, I will wait and see, but having a (FRAUD ALERT) or EMT option is bonus.

Regards, Brent
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same hear
simon
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me too
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Alright troops,

Got permission to do a 'fund drive' for a lawyer to present my case in court.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=85756

As I already mentioned the lawyer is 'into' it and believes there is an excellent chance due to my geographical location (rural Alberta). Unfortunately being in the sticks makes it tricky without professioal assitance.

To all those who have already offered support I can do e-tansfers and I just set up a (FRAUD ALERT) acct. It should be totally functional in a day or 2

As Davemachine says....gogogogogogo :)
 
I am not even a gun owner YET. I will be in 2 weeks. This is somewhat discouraging...

I don't think enforcement will ever reach the hunting rifles as most ppl I talk to didn't even register to begin with. Outright civil disobediance. Good luck visiting EVERY rural household in Alberta and confiscating utility/sporting firearms.

Alberta will long be it's own country by then.

Black rifles (restricted) are not the majority and will be targeted next. Follwed by handguns. (Now would be the time to start your AR style furniture modz company)

I think the corrupt LIEberal party has beuracracies running out of control creating there own policlies/make work projects.

THE ONLY ANSWER is legislation from the ground up in Alberta. A clean cut from the federal BS is called WESTERN SEPERATION.

I am surprised the conservatives don't play up the gun vote more often. I rarely hear much about it. Hell why wouldn't even the liebs scrap the behemoth gun reg to buy votes?

Its a function of power and politics. - eventually it may get the status that ### marriage does.

Federal gov is too big. Corruption is obviously rampant. I'll bet the software contracts for the gun registry are worse than the sponsorship scandal.

fed007
 
Gentelmen, IMHO the only way to effect significant change in government policy is from the inside. Those of us thet can, should run for office & provide a beacon of sanity on paliment hill. Two billion dollars would have gone a long way towards providing an effective border control, maybe helping to stem the flow of illegal guns into Canada & helping the US authorities deal with smugglers on their side. Personaly, I would like to see a government composed of people that know what it means to run a houshold on a tight buget & don't have time for solutions that don't work & cost big bucks. Many people reading this will think they are not cut out to be politians & they maybe right, however we have had over 20 years of bad policy & it would not be hard to improve on that track record! Do not underestimate yourselves! Some of the greatest leaders in the world did not want the mantle of power, but had thrust upon them by a sense of need & duty. So much in the way of resourses has been sqandered by governments in half measures & deception, it astoundes the mind. They are so afraid of telling the truth & doing that which even common morality demands, they don't even know what it is any more. We don't need more politians, we need people who can make policy whith the truth, honesty & courage that Canadians are famous for. This is our country, our rights, our reputation, our honor that is being soiled by the current government & if there is currently no better alternative it is our sacred duty to make one!
 
desporterizer said:
Gentelmen, IMHO the only way to effect significant change in government policy is from the inside.
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Yes and no...

To get the ENTIRE registry system axed would require exactly what you say.

This thread is about the registry being used to ban a certain class of firearm.It is about beuacrats twisting the 'word' of parliament and creating regulations that can only, eventually, lead to confiscation

What is needed IN THIS PATICULAR CASE is for everyone who owns guns in these classes to get their asses into court over it.

Lets get ALL legally registered guns back on the range.

There is a time limit on this....the longer we dilly-dally the more likely these bogus regulations will stick. The Antis are working hard at getting the SAP removed from law and then we will be trully ####ered
 
To Bartok and all the other good men and women who serve our beloved country, I implore you, "Please do not dispair." There are many here who value your dedication, hardwork and sacrifices. After reading your eloquent posts, I am left to feel embarassment and shame at how this government has misled and violated the very ideals it claims to protect. People who respect the law are being harassed in a smoke-and-mirrors excercise by those who hold us in contempt. Those who cause problem--criminals-- appear to flaunt the law and rarely suffer the full weight of the consequences of their heinous actions. I have come to the conclusion that current federal governance is rife with corruption, nepotism, arrogance and venality. I am admittedly an introverted individual who has found a sense of belonging within the RFC. The camraderie and good cheer are both heartening and worthy of respect. Today I feel embarassed to be a Canadian, an Ontarian, a civilian who has never had to "put it all on the line" in defense of everything I take for granted. I have recently found myself challenging the Liberal propaganda that I used to swallow whole. But as my embarrassment and shame subside they are replaced with anger and a desire to do something. I refuse to believe that I and many of my kind pose any danger to society at large. I resent being portrayed in the media as a contributing factor in violent crime. And so I have resolved to send e-mails and letters to my MP, MPP, local newspaper, expounding our side of the story. I have also decided to get more Newbies out shooting with me. (I've already taken 3 8) Additionally, I will buy an AR-15 next year (It's for the Cause, don't you know. :wink: and I will take up other shooting sports and try to change ignorant views when I can. Moreover, I WILL contribute financially to the cause of fighting unjust legislation (Just sent $100 to CILA) and to protect rights. Finally, I will never cast another vote for the Liberal party again until it reverses its ridiculous stand on firearms. If after all that we still get screwed at least, well at least I tried.

As most of you know, the older you get, the less tolerant of BS you become.

Good luck all.
 
I believe what we need to do is a bit of everything that has been suggested, but also have a hand in writting the bills that are passed with a bit of common sence and input from those that participate in the sport of Shooting/hunting/collecting/anything firearms related. If bills that make absoulutly no sence keep being allowed to be passed it just puts everything in the sport in potential jeopardy, Hunting rifles shot guns included. When we have a Prohib rifle such as a FN-C1 that is Prohib, (Battle Rifle and a Piece of Canadian History) AR-15's with Barrel lengths from 10.5" - 26" as Restricted, and Sig's which in all reality are no different than the AR family as non restricted take where ever you want,.You got to ask yourself who the hell is makeing the rules and when are they going to pull thier head out of thier ass so they can see daylight? It makes no sence and has no consistant reason. Although haveing those other rifles added to prohib makes no sence either.

I have absoulutely no problem in having my guns registerd, Actually believe it to be a good idea...sorry.

I believe the ability to get firearms is in some ways to easy and it should be mandatory that applicants pass a propper training course... Including time on the range developing marksmanship skills and an understanding of the firearm they wish to aquire and a compentancy level in using them. Not just watching a video and doing 50 multiple choice questions. Im sure we all have horror stories about idiots in the Bush durring hunting season, and close calls at the range.

I would love to see Handguns available to Hunters for hunting and Hikers for carry in the deep woods, to me it just makes sence.

I would love to be able to take an AR to blast gophers. And would love for others to have the oppertunity.

I would love to see people able to own short pistols- Full auto's, with proper training.

Why do we have Classes Restricted/ Prohib. In Canada...I think it is inpart because we ourselves the Shooters and Hunters in Canada have referd to these as WEAPONS or restricted weapons or Prohibitted weapons...instead of firearms. We need to get the thinking of weapons out of the minds of Canadian people. We need to retrain our media and get them from story telling when guns are involved....for example in the Edmonton Sun a few weeks ago, they had a picture of a pot bust. In the background was a long line of fire arms with a lot of FN's and others, but in picture kinda overlapping the story was a picture of a hand holding onto a .308 cartridge telling the world it was a "FULL METAL JACKET" well the comments at work were....Arn't those used for shooting tanks and shooting down Airplanes.....How did he get that kind of ammo...and a whole lot of others. I had to explain that FMJ's are a standard cartridge for target shooting I myself buy them by the thousands for my rifles. And they are not a KILLER Cartridge or a "API" armour piercing incediary round, A hollow point hunting round would do way more damage to an individual than that. Weapons are carried by Military/police/or criminals. I love all things that go bang and would love to own all types of things that go bang, but at the same time do not feel that I need a weapon.

I beleive if we as the gun owners/shooting enthusiasts/hunters/collectors could get our #### together and come up with a training program and a firearms classification system, we could present our own bill to be passed in parliment. Why waite for Ottawa to tell us what is safe, why not show them we are as concerned as they are but want it done right to protect the rights of those who shoot, and to protect the rights of those that don't. Criminals will always be around....illegal firearms will always be around. Change the laws to deal more strongly with the criminals to prevent us everyday good citizens from having restrictions put on us for thier actions. And stop classifying guns as restricted or prohibitted because of something in a movie or some dumb ass saying it could be available to Terrorists.

just an opinion. 8)
 
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