Westly Richards RIC #1 revolver

[bearhunter]

Yesterday I picked up an "antique" Westley Richards RIC #1 revolver in Kamloops. It is tight and all mechanical movements are positive and crisp. It retains about 25% of its original finish but has very little handling wear or internal wear. The bore is excellent as are the cylinders.

I have never been successful posting pics so I won't even try. I have accepted the fact that I am computer challenged and at my age life is to short to sweat the small stuff.

Ok, the revolver is chambered in one of the 450 cartridges available at the time. Both the 450 Adams round and the 455 Webly rounds chamber.

The pistol is unique if for nothing else its condition. After a few hours of stripping and cleaning the only stamps visible are on the top of the hex barrel flat "Westley Richards & Co" and a proof mark on the flute of each chamber at the breach end. The proof mark is one that was used starting in 1856. Other than the serial number 8D4213 there are no other markings.

This serial number dates back to 1853 according to the Westley Richards site. This is an impossible manufacturing date. Westley Richards did not start producing RIC #1 revolvers until sometime in 1867. From the pics I have seen the WR RIC #1 revolvers were slightly different, such as no streamlining of the bottom of the frame but not much else. The revolver is built on the "early pattern" frame with a hex barrel which is correct for the early model.

The other thing about this revolver is that it has a fluted cylinder. Most of the early pistols had cylinders without flutes. I am presuming this pistol was a commercial product rather than one made for the military. My presumption is based on the lack of markings and condition. Not even a chambering mark.

I need to find a site that has more information on these lovely revolvers. So far after a few hours of searching not much seems to be out there. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places.

If anyone specializes in these pistols I would really appreciate some input.

By the way, I haven't been able to ascertain whether or not Westley Richards made just enough changes in this revolver to evade patent infringements or they built the pistols under license. There is also he chance that the pistol was built somewhere else other than Liverpool and was never in England at all and why there are no other proofs or markings and was built as a clone. The only thing that makes me doubt this is that the quality of this pistol is high end inside and out. The only tool marks visible are almost indiscernible file marks that are only visible under 30X magnification from hand fitting.

 

[jethunter]

Webley sold unfinished revolvers to many different makers for them to refinish and put their own name on. Westley Richards may have used Webley or Belgian made revolvers, and likely used both at one time or another.

Most Webley RIC revolvers I have seen had the RIC model number stamped on the side of the frame, even when they had another maker's name on them. The Belgian clones I've seen did not have this.

The RIC #1 New Model was introduced in the early 1880s. It had fluted cylinders and an "acorn" style knob on the ejector rod.

The trigger assembly on the Webely RIC is usually the first thing to look at when trying to decide if a pistol is a webley or one of the Belgian look-alikes. The real webleys have a roughly triangular shaped piece protruding from the frame into the trigger guard directly behind the trigger. Belgian copies did not usually have this.

Some of the Belgian guns were very good quality, some were finished well externally but had inferior actions and materials, and some were cheap and junky inside and out.

If you email me some pictures I can put them on here for you and might be able to identify it for you. Terry@jetbullets.com

 

[jethunter]

Does it look like this?

 

[bearhunter]

Thanks Jethunter but no. I have one the revolver in your photos.

If you send me an email address I will send you some photos. Dingus is stumped on who the manufacturer might be as well. I found a pic of one that was exactly like mine on the internet but it was listed as unknown maker and like mine without any stamps.

The lines are very similar to yours but the frame is different in that it has a hump at the rear of the top strap, the ejector rod isn't as elegant and the lower frame isn't stepped above the trigger.

 

[jethunter]

I got the pictures. I tend to think your pistol was made by Webley to custom specifications for Westley Richards. I have never seen one of the Belgian clone guns to be quite this exact in matching Webley specs - they were similar but usually easy to note differences. The real proof would be in the action - if you disassemble the trigger-hammer-sear then they will tell the story.

Webley made custom guns to customers specifications for anyone who would put in an order, including other manufacturers who would order unfinished revolvers and complete the work in their own shop. Webley made a lot of "one-offs", and built custom features in special orders for makers like H&H, Westley Richards, and others. I think your pistol is an example of a special order pistols with custom guns made for Westley Richards. A buyer would look at a catalogue or sales models at the webley factory or sales office and choose the options he wanted. The factory would build it with the options that were ordered.

The reasons I tend to think your pistol is made by Webley:

- The position, size, and type of the action screws is perfect webley.
- The "humped" topstrap is identical to known examples of RIC No. 2.
- The missing step in the lower frame matches known examples of RIC No. 1 Second Pattern.
- The grip/frame contours appear to match known examples of RIC No. 2.
- The loading gate and mount looks identical to known examples of RIC Model 83 and MP.
- The ejector rod assembly matches known examples of Webley RIC Model 82, Model 83, and MP
- The fluted cylinder matches cylinder used in several RIC models.
- The trigger guard matches known examples of RIC No. 3
- The "external sear" (triangular-shaped part that protrudes into the t. guard behind the trigger) is indicative of a webley action.

 

[kg]

I have never been successful posting pics so I won't even try. I have accepted the fact that I am computer challenged and at my age life is to short to sweat the small stuff.

Please try postimage.org as a host.

Sign up, select family safe, select old site (sic),
chose images (upload from computer to postimage)

 

[jethunter]

Identifying Webley RICs can be interesting.... apparently even Webley themselves were known to have imported Belgian made RIC clones and sold them to 3rd party gunsellers like Westley Richards, etc.

 

[bobdbldr]

Does it look like this?

I have one exactly like yours, actually took it out yesterday and fired a few .455. It started misfiring though, light primer strikes! The first 6 were great nice primer strikes, then light after that, might have been something I done so cleaned everything up and will try again next time out. The foreign pin protrudes, but not by much.
Edit.
I think I found the problem, the was a shaving of brass when cleaning so I looked at the fired brass, one of them had a scrape mark on the face, so I tried the fired casings in the cylinder and one would not go flush! There was a very small dent in on the rim of one chamber( looks like a foreign pin strike) it was stopping the round from going completely in, just by enough to hold the cylinder forward and get light strikes!! I must have pushed hard enough on the first 6 rounds to make it go flush. But not ont the second 6! Glad it wasn't anything serious! These are fun to shoot and I will need some, lead projectiles in .476 to reload!!