Wet tumbling - brass comes out totally black

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So after picking up a Lyman stainless tumbling kit this fall I've found out it's not as fool-proof as everyone seems to say they are.

First thing I learned was that you can't tumble sandy brass. My old dry tumbler doesn't care if the brass is sandy or not but in a wet tumbler it all comes out burnished and dull if there's even a bit of sand in there. So I end up having to do a rinse run, followed by a cleaning run with pins which is annoying.

Anyway my new issue is a batch of 300pcs of .308 Win brass (mixed nickle and yellow brass) all came out very black; so black I can't tell the nickel from the yellow by eye. The exterior of the cases were clean going in but had been FL-sized and still had lube on them. I wanted to clean off the lube and clean the inside and primer pockets. I use a mix of lanolin and isopropyl for sizing and it was still on the cases (lanolin anyway, isopropyl would have evaporated before I put them in). I use a tablespoon each of Lemishine and sunlight dish detergent with hot water; same as I've used for every batch so far. The water that came out looked just as black as it always does.

I've run a dozen batches of 9mm mixed nickel and yellow brass as well as two batches of .40 of the same and they all came out nice and clean (after running twice due to sand).
I just ran a batch of all yellow brass .223 that also had the same lanolin lube on it and it all came out clean and shiny.

I thought maybe it was carbon from the inside of the cases but it doesn't rub off at all. ScotchBrite pads will remove it but it's removing material so that's not surprising.
The only variable that's changed is the proportion of nickel to yellow brass. This batch that went all black was 2/3 nickel plated brass and 1/3 yellow brass.

I'm running it again now with fresh water and will see what happens.

Has anyone else run into this?

*edit*
A friend sent me a link to a forum where they said lanolin is exceedingly difficult to wash off with a stainless tumbler and it often ends up with sticky, black cases. Everyone recommends running the lubed brass in a dry tumbler for an hour before switching to stainless wet tumbling. Well that's a piss-off. Stainless wet tumbling sure seems like a PITA for marginally better results than dry tumbling.
 
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FWIW I use 1/4 tsp (a 9mm case full) of Lemishine and 2 tbsp of Dawn in warm/hot water.

Everything goes in - dirt, sand, etc. I actually stopped using SS pins to save time separating them later. Brass is not shiny new like when using the pins but close enough.

I'm wondering if the excess amount of citric acid is causing your issue (with the nickle cases)?
 
Paul_T said:
I'm wondering if the excess amount of citric acid is causing your issue (with the nickle cases)?
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Half the people I know use a large amount of Lemishine and a drop or two of Dawn. The other half use opposite ratios. I went with equal amounts and it's worked so far. It's only my second time running lubed brass though.

Skiman said:
I run some diluted simple green through it to wash the pins when they accumulate too much lube. Maybe 5 minutes.
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That doesn't sound like a bad idea. Just rinse the pins in a container or even soak them in a harsher degreaser (just don't run it in the tumbler as I'd worry about all the rubber and plastic).
 
Couple good squirts of dawn, warm-hot water and a 9mm case full of lemi shine. Works great for me. If brass is extremely dirty i'll change the water halfway through tumbling so the cases still come out shiny as new.
 
I had similar issue when I went to the lanolin lube. An internet search showed using liquid Woolite is the answer. I got it at Walmart in the laundry section. I use a full cap measure of the liquid Woolite then a few drips of Dawn and 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine and run 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Everything comes out shiney. The water is really black. That is the lanolin picked up by the Woolite.
I used the Woolite and never had an issue since. I'd run the steel pins only in the tumbler with the liquid Woolite to clean everything up first then do the brass with the liquid Woolite, Dawn and Lemishine.
 
Lanolin is from sheep so it makes sense that a wool detergent would work. I'll give that a shot, thanks.

After the second run the brass came out clean. It isn't too shiny but it's more than clean enough to load. I guess I'll need to run batches through multiple cycles as well as use a lot more soap and less Lemishine.
 
I use about 1/2 table spoon of Tide laundry detergent,a pinch of lemishine and hot water,45 minutes in the Frankford tumbler
and they (30-06 and .308 cases) come out clean as a whistle,next time I'll try half an hour,maybe long enough.
My sizing lubricant is STP oil treatment,even use it on the inside of the necks,works like a charm.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of wet tumbling! Indeed not fool-proof but far better results when done within given parameters. I find dry media tumbling is more forgiving with less efforts but the results are not as great and constant.

Sand is a very aggressive media in wet tumbling. Much milder medias are used to polish stones... Sand, clay or any type or mud does not make it to my wet tumbler.

My experience is not to mix metal types such as brass, nickel plated brass, steel and aluminum in a wet tumbler or unpleasant results arises. I do not find much of an issue with plated brass but I still avoid mixing it.

Depending on the capacity of your tumbler, a table spoon of Lemishine could be excessive. Mine is a 3.5 gallons (40 lbs of brass or +/- 2000 9 mm) and I use 1 ts of it. A "little too much" Lemishine gives me redish-brownish brass. I have not tried "way too much" Lemishine but I suspect a darker color can be expected. I'm sure someone else can chime in on this.

I also noticed water ph level and temperature affects brass color. I get far better results with cold water. Tests/trial runs will tell you the correct amount of Lemishine to use. I find less is better than too much but too little will not bring out the wanted shiny gold color.

I use dry tumbling for removal of sizing lube.
 
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The instructions for my STM wet tumbler calls for 2 to 3 tablespoons of Dawn and a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi-Shine.

The amount of soap and Lemi Shine can vary by how hard your water is and how dirty the brass.

If you do not have sudsy water at the end of the tumbling time you need to add more soap.

The dish washing soap holds the dirt in suspension and off the cases. And lack of soap will let the dirt cling to the cases.

If the cases do not have bling you need more Lemi Shine, and it is a water softener and aids cleaning.

And the longer you tumble the cases the greater chance of peening the case mouths.

When all else fails read the tumblers instructions and forget bad advice off the internet.

Instructions_Website.jpg
 
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I’m having the same issues.

It appears that the alcohol is evaporating, leaving me more lanolin to deal with.
I’ve added more alcohol to mixture and will try that.
 
bigedp51 said:
The instructions for my STM wet tumbler calls for 2 to 3 tablespoons of Dawn and a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi-Shine.

The amount of soap and Lemi Shine can vary by how hard your water is and how dirty the brass.

If you do not have sudsy water at the end of the tumbling time you need to add more soap.

The dish washing soap holds the dirt in suspension and off the cases. And lack of soap will let the dirt cling to the cases.

If the cases do not have bling you need more Lemi Shine, and it is a water softener and aids cleaning.

And the longer you tumble the cases the greater chance of peening the case mouths.

When all else fails read the tumblers instructions and forget bad advice off the internet.

Instructions_Website.jpg
Click to expand...
I stick to the above but substitute Tide He for dish soap..
 
A cheapo ultrasonic from amazon will take the sizing lube off easily with hot tap water and a few drops of dish soap. They won't have to dry before being wet tumbled obviously. Just look on amazon for a cheap ultrasonic machine, $30 and you're all set.
 
I use TSP, any dish washing liquid, and vinegar. Tumble with SS pins for one hour. Check the brass. If it is still greasy add a bit more TSP. Tumble for another hour. Also follow the "smear a small amount of lanolin inside a plastic bag with 10x the ISO-propyl alcohol" technique to lub the brass.
 
I lube my brass with pure lanolin spray (Princess Auto metal protector) size them, then clean in my tumbler with SS pins, dish soap and Lemishine, and shiny brass is always the result. This is for brass only - no nickel.

I don't see the lanolin as being at fault even if far more than needed was used to size, and too little detergent to clean. Could it be the nickel and brass together?
 
I haven't been using much with lanolin in it so don't know what effect that has.
Nickel plated cases and even primers often come out black if they slip into the mix. I try to keep them separate from the brass and make sure they go in without any lemishine, just soap.
 
I think that the Lemishine and its Citric Acid could be turning the nickel black.

Put a few nickel cases is some water with Lemishine and leave it for a while and see. Do the same for brass only and for nickel and brass together.

As for removing the black from brass, I've used 50/50 vinegar and water to do that.
 
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