What Accuracy to Expect

Ike

Ike

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Hi all,

I am wondering what level of accuracy one can expect to get out of a standard open sight Black Rifle (ARs, Sauers, XCRs, HKs etc).

Criteria are:
- Groups you have fired, not hypothetical or 'friend of a friend..' ;)
- Open factory sights
- Benched but not using a lead sled or return to zero rest
-100m distance

I know some of these guns (Black Special etc) are deadly accurate when scoped but what do they do with open sights? What group size do you get?

You may see I have also posted in Hunting and Battle Rifle forums, I am trying to get an idea of what the benchmark is for different open sight guns. Most everyone uses scopes these days but I am curious about how the different types of firearms do with open sights.

Thanks and Cheers
 
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IMHO, i think that any western gun in 5.56 (AR, XCR, AR180...) with a minimum of 16" barrel, decent shooter and military standard ammo should be able to hit a 1ft x 2ft size target at 300m. You can push the 20" barrels to 500m if conditions are optimal.

Western block 7.62 x 39mm type (SKS, AK...): in same conditions you will see the maximum effective range of 200m. if you are very good.

Just my 2¢
 
We used to do the service rifle competitions in the 80's with iron sights before optical sights were popular on AR15's. We shot the matches with the issue peep sights out to 500y on Fig 12 & Fig 11 targets. Bull's eyes are about 3MOA for these matches. Suprisingly, the scores were quite good in those days. In fact, when the army started issuing the Elcan scopes, the guys with iron sights generally out shot the ones with the Elcans (before they got the mount problems fixed). The rifle accuracy doesn't depend on the sight system. The scoring depends on how well the rifle is zeroed and on the marksmanship of the shooter though.
 
RifleDude said:
We used to do the service rifle competitions in the 80's with iron sights before optical sights were popular on AR15's. We shot the matches with the issue peep sights out to 500y on Fig 12 & Fig 11 targets. Bull's eyes are about 3MOA for these matches. Suprisingly, the scores were quite good in those days. In fact, when the army started issuing the Elcan scopes, the guys with iron sights generally out shot the ones with the Elcans (before they got the mount problems fixed). The rifle accuracy doesn't depend on the sight system. The scoring depends on how well the rifle is zeroed and on the marksmanship of the shooter though.
Click to expand...


I can't speak for the 80's, but when I joined in the early 90's, we still had C7's with peep sights. Off the 100 meter mound, deliberate fire, prone unsupported, with a C7 from the rack, a good shot could manage a 2 inch group. This was the "I don't think you'll manage it, but try to get there" goal given to us by our platoon warrant...who happened to be a sniper. Out of the platoon of recruits I was in, one of us managed to do it during our familiarization to the C7. Good iron sights should be accurate to within "minute of fig. 11"

Good peep sights should provide a very similar groups to a good scope if the shooter does his part. I found that my overall scores improved with the Elcan scope if there were no mount issues, but those scores take more into consideration than just the best possible grouping shot from the prone. :)
 
A decent AR will print 2" groups Easily. Sub moa occasionally with a bit of work.
All with the right ammo, obviously.
Same could be said of the Sig & SL8.
Not sure of the XCR, but from the one I handled, the trigger sucked huge. I'd steer clear of these, but that is just my opinion.
 
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Hi

Are we using hand loads or military ammo?

With good hand loads, a good rifle, on a good day you can do 1.5" or so. A properly tricked out AR (factory rife) with a good scope on it will hold under 1/2" at 100 yards.

Bob
 
I run nothing but factory ammo. I have no issues with accuracy. A shooting buddy scored a first round hit at 400 out of his Savage12fv in 223 with American Eagle 55gr FMJ. For the accuracy junkies factory ammo is pooh. For the majority of shooters, I feel that factory ammo is quite sufficient.

TDC
 
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