What action for a precision build...?

rishu_pepper

rishu_pepper

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Since I've been pondering the idea of building a precision BR rimfire, I've been wondering what action would befit this build. Which one would you choose?

Annie 54
Suhl 150
Turbo
Rem 40x
Win 52
Stiller (can it be obtained in Canada?)
Others?

I plan to stake out the EE for the donor action :evil: Then my plan is to buy a Shilen off mysticplayer (is a 1-16" twist the "norm"?) and a Robertson BR stock from Ian R., and probably stick a Weaver T-36 on it. Of course, this is a long-term project, but it's nice to have some idea of what I could do with it. Might as well stock up the items before the price hikes AGAIN. :eek:

P.S. I don't believe there's a gunsmith in Canada that specializes in putting together rimfires...? :confused:
 
How about Ruger 77/22, lots of aftermarket parts, barrels, triggers, stocks. I am very sure all said and done it can be sub-MOA rifle @ 100yds, and if you shop right all under $1200.
my favorite 77/22, more tactical then benchrest but it always gives smiles:
greenhornet3.jpg


http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c177/medic103/?action=view&current=GreenHornet2.flv


http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110541
 
Any of the ones you listed would be allright - availability of getting them may be difficult however.

There are a couple different ways you can go. You can get the factory rifles and build off of them. These guns would include guns like:

Anschutz 54,
Rem 40X
Win 52,
etc

OR you could look at a complete custom action such as:

Time
Hall
Turbo
Swindlehurs
etc

Any of the custom actions will likely run around $1200US or so. They are superior to the factory made guns but I don't know if it would be completely worth it. Furthermore it would likely be difficult to find one in Canada and importing one may take time and $.

Anschutz is nice as they are a fairly recognized brand and therefore there are more parts and accessories made for these guns. Lilja for example makes a drop in barrel for the 2013 model. One problem with the anschutz 54, if I am not mistaken, is that they are pinned into the action, not screwed. If I were to make a benchrest gun from an anschutz I would look at getting the action screwed. It will be much stronger this way and you will likely see a bit of an increace in accuracy.

There seems to be many trends out there for barrels right now. I do not follow it as closely as I used to but I do know that there are lots of options out there. You can go for 1:15 or 1:16 twist, reverse taper, 6 groove, 2 groove, etc. Each has its own advantages but takes a lot of research to find which one will fit you best. 1:16 in a regular taper with 6 grooves seems to be a pretty safe bet though. There is of course the differnet barrels out there. Seems a couple years ago benchmark was THE barrel, but there are so many out there and I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the high end custom barrels including hart, shilen, lija, douglas, benchmark, etc.

I was in a similar boat about a year and a half ago. Looking for a real competitive benchrest gun. Finally landed on a Winchester 52D custom (mcMillian Light benchrest stock, hoehn tuner, and other modifications like the action had been blueprinted and trued and the gun had been set back and rechambered, etc). Overall this gun shoots really really good. Will shoot with any gun I have seen so far in Canada (maybe Jeff will have something to say about that though!) However, right now benchrest shooting is not a very popular event in Canada. There are no major competitions and it won't really get you anywhere. The best you could do right now would be to find a club that has benchrest shoots, or compete with it down in the states. I figured this out and after being told by a member on here that I should look into the 3p type shooting I opted to give that a try. Much more opportunity than this and after less than 2 years of shooting the 3p match style of shooting I have allready had the opportunity to compete in India at youth commonwealth games and shoot in a number of provincial and national style shoots. Not that I don't like benchrest, just not as many opportuniteis in it so you may want to think about this before dumping a whole bunch of money into one!

Hope this helps... :D
Jordan
 
I've seen tremendous rifles built with Ron Smith's barrels on martini actions, very accurate.
Although the Anschutz actions are pinned, you will likely NOT see an accuracy increase if you thread the barrel.
Anschutz has this down to a science, even their 222 remingtons are pinned, and well under .5MOA rifles.
The main variable in a rimfire set up is the ammo, anyway, because of the crmping system of the bullets, so build a rifle on your favorite action with a good barrel, and find a lot of ammo that will shoot out of it.

Cat
 
RP, I look forward to helping you get a Shilen. They are doing very well in the BR rimfire world and ranked right there with Benchmark (ie top of the heap). Building these rifles is very much different then centerfire mainly because you have the tune the rifle to the ammo, not the other way around.

There are some great articles on 6mmBR.com that show how some top end rimfire's are built. Very interesting stuff.

The SUHL comes up a lot for its conical breech style. Apparently, indexing the barrel can help accuracy alot. This is not easy with actions that require extractor cuts in the barrel.

There are now some BR actions which clamp the barrel in place - no pin, no threads, just friction. Makes indexing the barrel a snap.

Hopefully, the dollar will not drop anymore and I am doing my best to hold pricing. However, I just got word that the licensing costs will go up significantly which will have to be added to the barrel costs.

Not trying to be an alarmists but if you want, get while the getting is good.

16 twist is the most common with 22LR and what I would recommend UNLESS the ammo you choose needs a specific twist.

You might want to see what types of top end ammo you can find....

Jerry
 
Another thing that I thought of was the chambering. Some people chamber their guns for the ammunition they shoot. This can be a very good idea but helps if you just shoot the same ammunition all the time. A popular reamer is the match eps (which of course is intended for eley match eps black box ammo). Be sure that if you do go all the way to get a good gun you get a half decent reamer to cut the chamber with. A good match chamber is crucial!

Adam said:
What is 3P shooting?

Adam
Click to expand...

three position (prone, kneeling, standing).
 
look for an action with locking lugs, either forward or to the rear of the bolt.
Krico actions rock, a few customs built on CZ 452 actions. but I have to ask why build a rifle when you can buy a tuner and get yours to shoot?
 
You could probably be quite competitive with a factory Anschutz 54, Winchester 52 or Feinwerkbau 26xx rifles.

Armtech Canada (out of Sherbrooke) specialize in target/bench rifle work. They also built their own actions (very nice)

Francis and Gerard are good guys to deal with.
 
Jordan,

You certainly make a good point about the lack of serious competition for BR rimfire in Canada. I wouldn't mind getting involved in 3p, but a medical condition of mine (epilepsy) makes me get the shakes so shooting off-hand is a real challenge for me. I assume 3p is shot with aperture sights?

Mel,

You can bet I'll be there, bright and early for the first 22 BR shoot at Mission! Any word of us getting sanctioned, or is that to be determined?

Dave,

There's nothing wrong with the Krico per se, maybe I'm already thinking too much and wanting to keep up with the Joneses... :) Do you think a gunsmith can install a Shilen onto my Krico?

Speaking of tuners, what do you recommend and where can I get one?

Jerry,

I will get in touch with you in regards of a Shilen barrel. I agree that I should probably get it while it's still "cheap".
 
rishu pepper
All due respect to the Krico - it may be somewhat of a waste to put a match barrel on that rifle,unless there is a fault. If you are contemplating a full-blown bench gun in the future you would probably be better served to shoot the Krico as much as possible and learn the bench techniques as much as you can for now and start hoarding bits and pieces for the ultimate rifle.
The Krico has a good trigger but not the best and the actions are not as solid as some of its competitors(ie Anschutz,FWB,Suhl) and typically custom actions can accept custom triggers(ie Jewell,Shilen,Kelbly,Jackson) and are far stouter than your Krico. Yes,get your barrel now and keep your eye out for a better action for your build.
The Stiller rimfire action , I understand will be available later this year and already there is a waiting list for them. It's a very close copy of a 40x.
I don't know who in Canada sells Stillers now but maybe one of the dealers on these forums. All the best with your shooting and your build !
 
dryfire, I agree. While there is nothing wrong inherently with the Krico, I believe a custom bbl. would be "wasted" on that action (which is not in 100% shape). I'll keep shooting it to improve my skills (or keep on evaluating the situation) and see how it goes from there.

Will probably keep scoping out the EE for a nice action. I vaguely remember someone in Canada deals with Stillers but I can't figure it out for the life of me... and I don't really want to deal with the hassle of importing (plus the crap dollar we have). Something will come up I guess. Maybe Eagleye will get tired of some of his toys and sell me one on the cheap :D
 
The Anschutz 64 and 54 actions are not only pined, but, there is also a slight taper where the barrel is secured to the action.
I have re-barreled a few 64's and 54's, and matching the taper of the new barrel to the action while at the same time maintaining the correct head-space would be very difficult to do, therefore, most Anschutz actions are threaded when a new barrel is installed.

Removing the old barrel from the action is another story, use a pin the diameter of the bolt, big welding glove on the left hand, and use a small sleds hammer to drive the barrel out.
 
some comments

1. armtech is not building 22 rifle to compete with (as of 2 weeks ago)

2. your first true br gun should be a buy not a build

3. stiller is being imported by robertson composites available in the fall (read spring of 2010 jeffy stiller has not kept his promise on the delivery date yet on this, and I shoot with the guy in st louis missouri centerfire br and saw some drop ports when they were first made,

4. barrels such as lilja are also great, benchmark is not the top barrel at all, many shooters are having success with bartlein, kreiger lilja (my fav) some shilen, (they had a good run about 5 years ago) and others,

5. more importantly is the chamber of the barrel and who did the gun, maybe order a EPS reamer for most high end ammo,

6. barrel indexing is also valuable but not ready unless billy meyers makes his indexing action available to all, (please note I was action # 22) (as with the new stiller action)

7. buy windflags ie graham flags brflags.com

8. the new robertson JTR BR stock with the flat sides rides better or as good as the mac edge, I desinged it OK their is my plug

9. my computor is acting up so more later,

glad to see the interest in true br rifles

post away so all can learn

more about good runs of barrles later, also more on chambering and also posts on gun selection if you wish

I am not the guru or have lots of knowledge, just money to buy and then learn from my purchasing

Jefferson
 
Jefferson is 100% right: your first benchrest rifle should be a buy not a build. In fact, you only have one logical choice: a round 54 action. The 52 and 40X are very good but unless you already spotted one, you will realize that they are hard to find here in Canada.

With any 54 target action (1400-1600-1800 or 1900 series), right from the start you'll have a very strong action, excellent ignition, a wonderful trigger (especially the 5018 found on later models) and usually a very good barrel. All you need after that is a 36X scope and a benchrest stock. There are even some stocks available (either wood or glass) that are inletted for the 54.

At first, don't even think about changing barrel. Most of the factory Anschütz barrels are excellent and the price of a custom barrel is totally out of proportion with the accuracy gain (this advice comes from a guy who currently own 54 rebarelled with Hart, Lilja and Schneider barrels...)

As far as tuners are concerned, it's mostly a matter of personal taste. I have always been well served by the Hoehn. Again, I don't really think that you should spend much time experimenting with a tuner at the beginning.

What will be VERY important right from the start is to find a lot of ammo that performs well in your rifle and believe me, it's not an easy task in Canada. You have to keep your fingers crossed hoping that your new rifle will like Lapua because it is the only match ammo that is easily available, thanks to the good work of Peter Dobson from Hirsch Precision. Eley, RWS and Fiocchi all suffer from erratic distribution in Canada.

Finally, I could not emphasize enough that at the beginning, you should focus on training. Learning how to read the wind (with quality wind flags, of course) will have a much more important effect on your scores than playing with custom barrels or tuners.

Hope it helps,

Paul
 
Just wondering: will the Robertson BR stock fit easily (drop-in or inletting) into most 54 actions? I would like to use that because of the Canadian factor. :)

FWIW I just ordered some Lapua and Eley ammo from Target Shooting Products from Peter Krause. Good guy to deal with.

Maybe I'll just stick with the Krico for now and stop thinking about all this nonsense; instead I should get a hell lot of practice and get me some windflags.
 
I'm not really familiar with Robertson stocks: I'm sure a 54 action could be used but I don't think it comes fully inletted.

Peter Krause is a super nice guy to deal with but I was not aware that Eley match ammo was again available from International Imports, it's been months since they had Tenex or Match in stock. What exactly did you ordered ?

Paul
 
replies

1. internaitonal imports and hirsh just got in stock a month ago or so, donot know any pricing

2. that guy in kamloops has 2 54 actions in older models and was supposed to send me pics 2 weeks ago through the sports store, both were about 900 so add a stock and away you go

3. buy used and get flags and some ammo, lapua or eley lower range and then

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

I will take pics of the one piece rest and case but who can post them for me

Jefferson
 
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