What am I looking at here?

[greywolf67nt]

Had someone ask if I was interested in some guns. Everything else I knew or was new enough it had data stamps but this one has me stumped.
The bore is big enough you can stick your finger in it.
Quick Google of the 1860 Enfield says it's a .577 (according to my finger that would be about right.
I first thought it was percussion cap but it has a firing pin setup in it.
Any ideas. I think I got pics of the important bits.

 

[Shane111]

it is a snider hard to tell the model, the 577. is a cartridge. so would need the firing pin.

normal looking snider to me

 

[Snider shooter]

Snider MK 11 star. Does it have its wood out to the muzzle? Rifling should be 3 groove if barrel matches the lock.
Should be a muzzle loader conversion to centre fire. 5 groove barrels where made as center fire, being a later model.

 

[smellie]

You can make brass from 24-gauge shotgun casings. Lee makes the dies.

You can cast your own slugs for it with the $25 Lee 578 Minie mould or one of the 'Modern Minies' about that size. Bores were a bit variable and sometimes worn: use softest lead you can find.

Charge should be RFG Number 2 but that is pretty hard to find this century. Try 60 grains of FFg.

"Whump!!", big cloud of smoke, very little recoil. A person standing behind you can WATCH the bullet go!

Once you know what you are doing, you can get it up to 18 rounds a minute!

Historical importance: It was the FIRST modern, centerfire, breechloading rifle. At one time a Snider or a copy armed half the world; even the French copied it but they will never admit that! It is a far more robust design than the famous US Springfield "Trap Door" rifle. It was Canada's main weapon at the time of the Fenian Raid (1866), Northwest Rebellion (1870), Riel Rebellion (1885) and soldiered on in Cadet use into the 1920s at least. In common with British use, they are well-marked and often you can read much of their history from the markings. They were all made FROM Pattern 1858 Enfield rifled-muskets: machine-made and 100% interchangeable parts. This one was built as a muzzle-loader in 1860, was converted to breech-loading likely in 1866. At the time of its introduction it was the BEST military rifle in the world and, with its high rate of fire, you could call it the AK-47 of the 1860s!

There are few things more relaxing than an afternoon at the range...... with a Snider and 50 rounds of ammo!

 

[Snider shooter]

Take the old girl out and shoot her. Properly loaded accuracy is pretty good. I've been taking one of mine to our black powder shoots just to see what it will do. Iam not winning but middle of the pack isn't bad when your beating people who know how to shoot. It's nice to win but I'd rather have fun with a snider. I do wonder what their thoughts are, 3or 4 thousand dollar rifle gets bet by 150 year old snider.

 

[greywolf67nt]

Okay now what would be a ballpark value on this thing?

 

[smellie]

"The Value of an object is what it will bring." -- legal maxim

A lot of the guys here don't do "values", in part because they can be so very subjective. I do know that I have been at this hobby for well over 50 years and, so far, I haven't sold a Snider. Sniders are too important historically..... and 'way too much fun..... to be treated as if they were merely dollars and cents.

As to determining a market value, there are any number of factors. It could, from the look of your photos, run as high as 700 of these devalued brass-plated things the Government calls "dollars", but there are any number of factors which can reduce this by as much as 500 or so of those same steel slugs. Factors include:

Lock: corrosion, rust or mechanical parts requiring replacement

Stock: has it been cut? Is the ramrod present? Any serious cracks? Is it split? What markings?

Barrel: has it been cut? Is it bright? Any pitting? Condition of the rifling? Any special markings?

A chopped stock and chopped, pitted barrel, along with a corroded lock, can reduce that from 700 down to 200 in one awful hurry. If you want a more accurate estimate, my suggestion is to post more photos, including full-length shots and at least one looking down into the action with the breech-block raised.

About 20 years ago, I was working in a shop when a huge private collection -- more than 300 guns -- came in: an estate sale on consignment..... and nothing had been cleaned in 30 years. There were at least 30 Winchester 1886s in calibres from .33 through to .50-110, all that kind of things. And there were a few Sniders. One in particular took my eye and I spent a lot of hours cleaning up that rifle. In the end, a fellow came in, looking for something 'special'. He left with that Snider, which walked out the door at $700. Outrageous price? Not really: where else are you going to find a rifle almost 140 years old....... pristine....... new...... better condition than almost ANY museum-piece..... and unfired?

 

[milsurpo]

Many current Snider shooters are switching to solid .59" and .60" flat based bullets and I've seen some great results (by others) at informal shoots. I'm finding that some 5-groove rifles don't appear to like the .60's and I won't shoot them in 3-groove rifles which have the big, wide lands. I still use the minie -type bullets in my 3-groove long rifles but have found very erratic results. The Snider may have been the first modern, centerfire rifle (although the 1866 .50-70 Springfield seems to have tied it) but it may also have been the only breechloading rifle that utilized minie bullets. The .50-70 was actually more modern in its usage of solid, larger than bore bullets (in addition to reducing the caliber by sleeving). It's kind of interesting trying to figure out why Boxer stuck to the minie bullets in his redesign of the cartridge for the Snider. I currently focus on Sniders and plan to have a fun time at the range tomorrow with a couple of Mk III's, testing some new loads.

milsurpo