What are the advantages of a "scout" type rifle?
- Thread starter L42A1
- Start date
There are many advantages and disadvantages to a long eye relief scout scope, but the gist of it is that a forward mounted telescopic sight of low magnification preserves the shooter's peripheral vision, keeps the ejection port open to allow the use of stripper clips to reload the rifle, and eliminates any chance of the scope striking one's brow during recoil.
A forward mounted optic is useful but not manditory on a scout type rifle, however it facilitates easier and more accurate shots at the further reaches of the rifles indended use, where the shots being taken are at a distance of out to 450 meters.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
A forward mounted optic is useful but not manditory on a scout type rifle, however it facilitates easier and more accurate shots at the further reaches of the rifles indended use, where the shots being taken are at a distance of out to 450 meters.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
red magnum
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sundre, Alberta
It looks cool? But honestly The only thing I can figure is with the optics mounted further away less of your vision is blocked.
Edit: Kevin beat me to it.
Edit: Kevin beat me to it.
quickness- you shoot with BOTH eyes open- that's also why you use a lower magnification and one eye "fools " the other into seeing a magnified image- same deal as using a red dot- you also gain a 180 degree of view or whatever your horizon is- so if "game " appears off your far left or right ,you can see it and target it quicker, rather than see it, mount the rifle, scope it, and THEN shoot it
The idea of a scout rifle is to minimize the amount of time between noticing a potential target while your rifle is slung over your shoulder, and getting off a well aimed shot. The original scout rifles had aperture sights on them and no scope, because Jeff Cooper thought that it simply took too long to locate a target in a conventional scope. When the long eye relief low power sights became available, he mounted them forward as a substitute for aperture sights.
The idea is you can be looking at and tracking your target while you bringing the rifle up to your shoulder, maybe even while moving yourself, and then without ever taking your eyes off the target see it in the scout scope, aim, and fire. With a conventional scope you lose sight of the target while trying to adjust to the eye relief and the zoom and have to search for it in your tunnel vision scope, maybe missing your opportunity.
The idea is you can be looking at and tracking your target while you bringing the rifle up to your shoulder, maybe even while moving yourself, and then without ever taking your eyes off the target see it in the scout scope, aim, and fire. With a conventional scope you lose sight of the target while trying to adjust to the eye relief and the zoom and have to search for it in your tunnel vision scope, maybe missing your opportunity.
Yeah, the gist of the idea has been covered already. Short, lightweight, adequate caliber for most all situations(.308 Win/7.62x51), quick target acquisition, and ability to use stripper clips to topload mag are most of the generic ideas that I've heard of for a Scout. Getting all those same things together on the same gun at a decent price point without substantial modification is a different matter.
A big portion of the concept that some people do not seem to account for it that it's intended as a Rifleman's rifle, not a sniper's rifle, not a designated marksman's rifle, or a target shooter's rifle. A whole lot of people seem to buy a scout rifle and then go out of the way to mount a receiver scope on it.
A proper, affordable, scout rifle could very easily be made except that technology and market demand has gone in other directions, namely the AR for actual combat, or the shooting bench at the range. Stripper clips don't mean much when you're sitting on the bench with a collection of mags lying beside you and can reload at leisure, and short length combined with light weight and a high-intermediate caliber means it's going to be loud and kick, making it an undesirable range gun. Quick target acquisition doesn't mean much when you're only shooting at a single stationary paper target.
My personal opinion is that Cooper's scout concept, or at least my idea of it, are stuck in "the fifties that could have been". Had the major armed forces not adopted the AR and various semi-autos, the scout rifle would have been a sensible evolution of the Mosin-Nagant, Lee Enfield, and Garand generation of infantry rifles as it carries over the features that work and attempts to improve in those areas it can to get a rugged, reliable infantry rifle. As it is, the idea is a bit dated and niche as a result. Most people seem to want bench guns, the kind that must shoot sub-moa or they're garbage because everyone knows you can't hit the broad side of a barn with a 4" group at a hundred yards, let alone a person's 6" head, or the even larger vital areas of most large game. The scout concept is not about a single perfect shot it's about a powerful snapshot in fluid circumstances.
Or something.
A big portion of the concept that some people do not seem to account for it that it's intended as a Rifleman's rifle, not a sniper's rifle, not a designated marksman's rifle, or a target shooter's rifle. A whole lot of people seem to buy a scout rifle and then go out of the way to mount a receiver scope on it.
A proper, affordable, scout rifle could very easily be made except that technology and market demand has gone in other directions, namely the AR for actual combat, or the shooting bench at the range. Stripper clips don't mean much when you're sitting on the bench with a collection of mags lying beside you and can reload at leisure, and short length combined with light weight and a high-intermediate caliber means it's going to be loud and kick, making it an undesirable range gun. Quick target acquisition doesn't mean much when you're only shooting at a single stationary paper target.
My personal opinion is that Cooper's scout concept, or at least my idea of it, are stuck in "the fifties that could have been". Had the major armed forces not adopted the AR and various semi-autos, the scout rifle would have been a sensible evolution of the Mosin-Nagant, Lee Enfield, and Garand generation of infantry rifles as it carries over the features that work and attempts to improve in those areas it can to get a rugged, reliable infantry rifle. As it is, the idea is a bit dated and niche as a result. Most people seem to want bench guns, the kind that must shoot sub-moa or they're garbage because everyone knows you can't hit the broad side of a barn with a 4" group at a hundred yards, let alone a person's 6" head, or the even larger vital areas of most large game. The scout concept is not about a single perfect shot it's about a powerful snapshot in fluid circumstances.
Or something.
Col.Cooper was all about light weight rifles in the 'scout' role...he would have considered the M14, even the SOCOM, a pseudo-scout rifle at best. You can see a lot of his ideas realized in the Steyr Scout rifle.
LER scopes have a fool proof eye box .. you shoulder the rifle and you're already looking at a perfectly clear sight picture.
Honestly for low mag optics i prefer the scout scopes to standard scopes.. my only wish is that they would come with the features that standard scopes do. Mildot, tac/target turrets, adjustable parallax ..
and honestly, of that lot, probably just tac turrets would do me..
Honestly for low mag optics i prefer the scout scopes to standard scopes.. my only wish is that they would come with the features that standard scopes do. Mildot, tac/target turrets, adjustable parallax ..
and honestly, of that lot, probably just tac turrets would do me..
I think that low-power variable optics of 1-4x or thereabouts mounted conventionally constitute a better alternative to the forward mounted 2-3x "scout" scope. 1x allows for binocular vision with even faster target acquisition while 4x allows for greater long-range precision. In addition, the receiver mounting eliminates the problem of glare on the ocular at dusk and dawn when facing away from the sun.
The only major disadvantage I can see is that charger loading is no longer possible. Given that bolt actions are long obsolete as battle rifles, I would consider this a moot point. The scout concept is at its best as a medium game rifle.
The only major disadvantage I can see is that charger loading is no longer possible. Given that bolt actions are long obsolete as battle rifles, I would consider this a moot point. The scout concept is at its best as a medium game rifle.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Even though it's a lever action this setup works really well for deer and black bear hunting in the thick stuff and rain of southern BC.
I set up a Win 94 carbine and an M98 Mauser as "scout rifles" with B-Square mounts @20 years ago.
I didn't like the extra weight on the M94, and the M98 never did have a fair shake as the mount was so crappy.
I ended up getting a 3rd hole drilled for the receiver sight on the M.94 to move the sight forward enough so that the aperture didn't catch on my thumb nail anymore.
As to shortening an M14 barrel, I've never understood the facination with shortening the effective barrel length on anything~ shortening the flash hider, man that is another story...
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
I had my Mod 0 set up as a Scout for quite some time.
A little on the heavy side, very accurate, powerful, versatile and reliable.
looks nice, but what is "a little on the heavy side..."?
after humping (stumbling and cussing) thru the bush (and logged off debris) for a 5 hours in -20, my 6lb model 64 was way too heavy..
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I had my Mod 0 set up as a Scout for quite some time.
A little on the heavy side, very accurate, powerful, versatile and reliable.
That forest in your rear looks like a BC soccer field
i have to disagree on the binocular vision side of things with conventional 1x scopes..
99% of them are not True 1x , nor do they become parallax free..
so you get all sorts of POI/POA differences
the S&B short dots actually click over to parallax free at 1x and are a true 1x ..likewise with the ELCAN SpecterDR.. i havent come across anything else that does..
