What BP for Martini-Henry?

Walther_PPK

Walther_PPK

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So I’m not really a black powder shooter but I just acquired a mk4 martini Henry and the stuff to reload for it. Everything but black powder.

Any suggestions on what type/brand I should get? And a place to get it (by Courier, cause I’m in NL and there’s nothing local at the moment).

I’ll be using 405gr cast bullets.
 
First off, Martini bullets are .467”. You might already know that, but I thought it should be mentioned.
Now, if you have the correct bullets, then an 80 grain measure of 2F of any make will work. Properly fitting cards, a grease cookie and suitable filler is recommended.
The 577-450 can be tricky cartridge to load, so do some additional online research.
Finally, black powder and some substitutes are very corrosive, so cleaning with hot water after firing is essential. Making sure it is dry and lubed follows.

I can’t offer any advice on where to get BP in Nfld.
 
Not answering your question (sorry!) but there exists adapters to fire 45 Colt or 45 acp from the M-H. I first learned of them from YouTube. Easy to reload for, no BP mess to clean up.

Of course, some would say that defeats the whole point of having a M-H. They might be right, but to me, the ease of shooting/reloading with my regular press (and I already reload for 45 ACP & 45 Colt) made it a no-brainer for me.

YMMV
 
wasa said:
Not answering your question (sorry!) but there exists adapters to fire 45 Colt or 45 acp from the M-H. I first learned of them from YouTube. Easy to reload for, no BP mess to clean up.

Of course, some would say that defeats the whole point of having a M-H. They might be right, but to me, the ease of shooting/reloading with my regular press (and I already reload for 45 ACP & 45 Colt) made it a no-brainer for me.

YMMV
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Seen those, but I want the real experience. I mean, I could always reload with a light charge of Unique like I do with my Swiss vetterli but there’s no smoke or recoil.
 
FFg Goex has worked well for me in my Martinis. I simply go with the original powder charge of 85 grns and see velocities close enough to original to be content (sight calibrations close out to 300m). Lube is also a very important question. Among the group I shoot with I see some dipping the bullet in "Udder Creme" before firing and others resorting to blow-tubing in an effort to control fouling. Personally I find some grease groove bullets hold enough wax to shoot accurately without resorting to these crutches. While the recent trend is to squeeze larger diameter bullets through these rifles, I suspect that doesn't help the fouling situation. I had good results with grease groove bullets around .460" and really good results with smooth-sided .45" bullets paper patched up to around .460". The latter have wax on the paper plus wax wad below bullet and will shoot accurately all day without cleaning as would the original military ammunition.

milsurpo
 
Jon9021 said:
Don’t touch those .45 cal converters!!! You will regret it! Rob on Britishmuzzloaders has the best advice on powder and loading.
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I like mine. You need to be careful not to load the cartridges to hot though or they will get stuck in the chamber and require a good sharp rap on a dowel with a mallet to loosen them up. I use a bit of lube on the outside of the adapter, which makes life much easier.

OP, One thing that always shows a good place to start with a BP load, I would use FFG in this situation, is to determine the depth you're going to seat your bullet and fill the case with enough powder so that it will be compressed when the bullet is fully seated.

You do not want an "air space" or loose powder charge when it comes to black powder loads. They will be inconsistent at best and at worst, can be very dangerous, turning your rifle into a pipe bomb under extreme conditions.

As far as bullet diameter goes, 577-450 Martini bores are notoriously inconsistent. Close, but nothing near that of today's barrels.

The original cartridges were paper patched so that these discrepancies could be dealt with effectively in the field.

You may want to try paper patching your bullets or slugging your bore and finding or ordering a custom mold which will cast bullets a few thou oversize to match.

When I'm loading BP cartridges, I use a very small charge of HS6 or something similar over the primer before topping up with BP.

The smokeless powder only needs to weigh 3-5 grains.

This really helps keep burn rates consistent and seems to leave less fouling behind in the bore, which means more shooting between cleaning.

My favorite bullet for the Martini, has a hollow base bullet, which is filled with automotive "BONDO" body filler to help it expand into the rifling and not leave any air space behind.

A good friend of mine, Jack Stead, out of Salmon ARM approaching the "centenarian mark" uses the same powder blend, but likes to use cards as wads under the bullet or fiber wads when he can find them. He was using a "waxed" fiber wad at one time, but didn't find they made any difference as long as his bullets had enough lubricant in the grooves.
 
If worse comes to worse and you cannot get any real BP shipped to NL then try Pyrodex RS, the proper substitute for 2F BP. These days it is cheaper than real BP and I think cheaper to ship because it is not an "Explosive", merely a "Flammable" according to to our government.
 
wasa said:
Not answering your question (sorry!) but there exists adapters to fire 45 Colt or 45 acp from the M-H. I first learned of them from YouTube. Easy to reload for, no BP mess to clean up.

Of course, some would say that defeats the whole point of having a M-H. They might be right, but to me, the ease of shooting/reloading with my regular press (and I already reload for 45 ACP & 45 Colt) made it a no-brainer for me.

YMMV
Click to expand...
The adapters do not work worth a dam in the mk4 with its .453 land to land.
 
Boolitcaster said:
First off, Martini bullets are .467”. You might already know that, but I thought it should be mentioned.
Now, if you have the correct bullets, then an 80 grain measure of 2F of any make will work. Properly fitting cards, a grease cookie and suitable filler is recommended.
The 577-450 can be tricky cartridge to load, so do some additional online research.
Finally, black powder and some substitutes are very corrosive, so cleaning with hot water after firing is essential. Making sure it is dry and lubed follows.

I can’t offer any advice on where to get BP in Nfld.
Click to expand...
Black powder is not corrosive its is hygroscopic it’s fouling draws in moisture from the air. Pyrodex on the other hand is very corrosive and will eat a gun and its brass quickly. For black powder cartridge guns a water jug to drop your brass into helps.
 
bearhunter said:
I like mine. You need to be careful not to load the cartridges to hot though or they will get stuck in the chamber and require a good sharp rap on a dowel with a mallet to loosen them up. I use a bit of lube on the outside of the adapter, which makes life much easier.

OP, One thing that always shows a good place to start with a BP load, I would use FFG in this situation, is to determine the depth you're going to seat your bullet and fill the case with enough powder so that it will be compressed when the bullet is fully seated.

You do not want an "air space" or loose powder charge when it comes to black powder loads. They will be inconsistent at best and at worst, can be very dangerous, turning your rifle into a pipe bomb under extreme conditions.

As far as bullet diameter goes, 577-450 Martini bores are notoriously inconsistent. Close, but nothing near that of today's barrels.

The original cartridges were paper patched so that these discrepancies could be dealt with effectively in the field.

You may want to try paper patching your bullets or slugging your bore and finding or ordering a custom mold which will cast bullets a few thou oversize to match.

When I'm loading BP cartridges, I use a very small charge of HS6 or something similar over the primer before topping up with BP.

The smokeless powder only needs to weigh 3-5 grains.

This really helps keep burn rates consistent and seems to leave less fouling behind in the bore, which means more shooting between cleaning.

My favorite bullet for the Martini, has a hollow base bullet, which is filled with automotive "BONDO" body filler to help it expand into the rifling and not leave any air space behind.

A good friend of mine, Jack Stead, out of Salmon ARM approaching the "centenarian mark" uses the same powder blend, but likes to use cards as wads under the bullet or fiber wads when he can find them. He was using a "waxed" fiber wad at one time, but didn't find they made any difference as long as his bullets had enough lubricant in the grooves.
Click to expand...
The martini bullet is not hollow base it is solid .468-.470 grease groove molds are proper for it.
 
C96 1897 said:
Trail boss smokeless powder should be a pretty safe bet too if you can find it
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No it’s proven to be unsafe in the martini too fast a burn rate coupled with a very large capacity bottle neck case has shore huge pressure spikes. Plus trailboss has been out of production for years while the Aussies figure their stuff out.
Stuff like 4198 or accurate 5744 could be used with the nitro for black rule.
 
Ok, so I got my powder and a bunch of lubed bullets. Here’s my next question: Grease cookie or not?

The internet is full of conflicting views from people using an 85gr load with cotton, cardboard, grease cookie, and cardboard again to take up the air space to guys who say air space doesn’t mean crap in a bottle necked cartridge like the MH and just crimp a lubed bullet right over the black powder and call it a day.

Soooo…..experience? Using grease on bullets that already have lube on them seems overkill and messy. And does an air pocket matter or not?
 
Walther_PPK said:
Ok, so I got my powder and a bunch of lubed bullets. Here’s my next question: Grease cookie or not?

The internet is full of conflicting views from people using an 85gr load with cotton, cardboard, grease cookie, and cardboard again to take up the air space to guys who say air space doesn’t mean crap in a bottle necked cartridge like the MH and just crimp a lubed bullet right over the black powder and call it a day.

Soooo…..experience? Using grease on bullets that already have lube on them seems overkill and messy. And does an air pocket matter or not?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t leave air space. I have always used my powder charge cotton ball couple thin cards then some more BP lube and a couple more cards on top of that. I’m also using a grease groove bullet for the martini(.470 out of a lee mold from a special run) but extra lube can’t hurt with black powder.
 
A properly designed grease-groove bullet shouldn't need a supplemental "cookie" below the bullet. My best luck with grease-groove Martini bullets was with pure beeswax as the lube. For "filler" I don't think anything beats foam backer rod- no point debating the pros and cons of airspace when you can fill it up so easily. The best indicator of a successful Martini load is 20-plus accurate rounds without wiping, blowtubing, or dipping the bullet in "udder-creme". I stick with bullets closer to the originals and avoid the larger diameters that seem popular as I suspect they compound the fouling issues. My absolutely best loads are X-Ring 0.45" smooth-sided bullets, paper wrapped to around 0.460". Pure beeswax cookie below bullet and lower portion of paper-wrapped bullet also dipped in pure beeswax.

milsurpo
 
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