what caliber do you shot in Productuon?

beltfed said:
I use 9mm & .40
Both types of ammo need to be downloaded for real advantage

Who shoots full power factory ammo in production?
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that is what I used for my first two years, 147gr WWB. 145 pf:shotgun: .
What a relief it was to go from that to Combat masters 134pf 124gr ammo:redface:
 
"Who shoots full power factory ammo in production?"
thats all I shoot, If you see me at a match shooting production it because I was too lazy to load any .40 for my STI.
 
See, now I see the point of using factory .40 for major as it already makes pf, but the difference in factory and downloaded 9mm & .40 for 125pf is like night and day. Do you find a huge difference in factory .40 and your handloads in your STI?

I'd like to see major and minor pf for production.:popCorn:
 
It's mostlly a reliability issue, I've found that short factory rounds tend to cause feed problems now and then. My hand loads are 1.200" and factor between 170 and 175, not sure what factory rounds would factor at.
Tweaking with ammo will only get you so much, at the end of the day it all comes down to who can shoot and who can't. I've been beat by and beaten guys running both types of ammo, not because of superior ammo but because of superior skill sets.
 
beltfed said:
I'd like to see major and minor pf for production.:popCorn:
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Then 9mm will be eliminated from the Division......

....but I don't think that would ever happen:

IPSC Global Village said:
4. Yes Dear, We Intended It To Be A 9mm Division!

Why? The single biggest problem facing IPSC competitors attending Major Matches today (and in the future), is the carriage of ammunition on board commercial passenger aircraft. Now if we had Major and Minor scoring, it's clear from the other Divisions that the vast majority of people would chose to shoot Major calibre rounds for the higher points available for peripheral hits on paper targets, but they'd be caught in the same "custom-made" ammo recipe trap.

One definition of "insanity" is "doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome"! By only offering Minor scoring, competitors would be able to use generic factory ammo and easily achieve Minor, rather than having to rely on home brews to make Major!

The idea was that if you had a problem getting your double-the-IATA-5kg-limit of 600 rounds of (whatever) factory brand of 9mm on board your flight to World Shoot, you can buy factory ammo at your destination, and your gun will work just fine and dandy. In other words, rather than perpetuating a known problem of shipping "custom-made" ammo, we found a solution, and all is well in Camelot and the birds are singing .......
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http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=4114


BTW, who's been shooting Production long enough to remember when everything in Production Division was scored Major? (and the min PF was still 125!)
 
You're right of course. What if the minimum PF was raised? Say to 140? Would that eliminate too many factory ammo options?
 
beltfed said:
You're right of course. What if the minimum PF was raised? Say to 140? Would that eliminate too many factory ammo options?
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Probably. Although I don't have any hard data, IIRC, most factory 9mm doesn't PF that high.

Besides, what's the big deal about how the rules regarding calibre/PF are now? At least the rules are clear cut and every shooter/gun is treated the same . I think a bigger problem facing the Division is the way some rules are being 'interpreted' to allow some guns to have modifications that aren't allowed in other guns. Definately not a level playing field and a nightmare to enforce. I, personally, would like to see Production Division adopt gun/equipment rules similar to IDPA Stock Service Pistol:

IDPA Rule Book said:
2. Stock Service Pistol Division (SSP)
Handguns permitted for use in this division must:
A. Be semi-automatic.
B. Be double action, double action only, or safe action (when
the trigger is pulled, the hammer/striker is cocked and then
released).
C. Be 9mm (9x19) or larger caliber.
D. Have a maximum unloaded weight of 39oz., including an
empty magazine. (Will be effective January 25, 2006)
E. Have a minimum annual production of 2000 units;
(discontinued models must have had a total production of
20,000 units).
F. Fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾” x 6” x 1 5/8”
with an empty magazine inserted.
G. Be loaded to the division capacity of ten (10) rounds in the
magazine plus one (1) round in the chamber. Should division
capacity not be achievable because of lower magazine
capacity, load to maximum mechanical capacity of magazine
plus one (1) round in the chamber. Competitors must use the
same capacity magazines through out the competition
(Example: if you start with a 9 round magazine, you must use
that capacity magazine throughout the match).
H. Begin hammer down for selective DA/SA pistols.
PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list):
1. Sights may be changed to another conventional notch and
post type (see “sights” in glossary for further information).
2. Grips may be changed to another style or material that is
similar to factory configuration (no weighted grips; see
“weighted grips” in glossary for further details).
3. A slip-on grip sock and/or skateboard tape may be used.
4. Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as
long as safety is maintained (no visible external modifications
allowed).
5. Reliability work may be done to enhance feeding and
ejection.
6. Internal accuracy may be worked to include replacement of
barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber.
7. Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the
magazine well.
8. Custom finishes may be applied.
NOTE: The slide releases and magazine releases that are standard
on the Glock 34 and 35 models are available as a factory option on
all Glocks available in the USA. Because of this, that type of slide
release and magazine release are legal on all Glocks for SSP.
EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list):
1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights.
2. Robar style grip reduction.
3. Add-on magazine well opening.
4. Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part
it replaces.
5. Seattle Slug Grip Plug and similar weighted products.
6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original
factory model.
7. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for
further information).
8. Checkering and stippling.
9. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal
Modifications.
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Some of the above rules wouldn't apply to IPSC (ie:mag capacity). But notice the G34/35 would be included in PD.
 
Dragoon said:
Probably. Although I don't have any hard data, IIRC, most factory 9mm doesn't PF that high.

Besides, what's the big deal about how the rules regarding calibre/PF are now? At least the rules are clear cut and every shooter/gun is treated the same . I think a bigger problem facing the Division is the way some rules are being 'interpreted' to allow some guns to have modifications that aren't allowed in other guns. Definately not a level playing field and a nightmare to enforce.
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PF - No big deal at all, just wondering 'aloud'.

Mods - Agreed.

I guess my point is that with such a low PF, you get people trying to run heavy-slow, while keeping it reliable -tada, mod city.
Raising the PF would effectively kill Factory 115gr & probably some 124gr. 9mm, but might effectively kill the internal modifications race.
 
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beltfed said:
PF - No big deal at all, just wondering 'aloud'.

Mods - Agreed.

I guess my point is that with such a low PF, you get people trying to run heavy-slow, while keeping it reliable -tada, mod city.
Raising the PF would effectively kill Factory 115gr & probably some 124gr. 9mm, but might effectively kill the internal modifications race.
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No modifications are required to run heavy/slow. Some people may CHOOSE to do that, but they would almost for certain do that whether they are running heavy/slow or light/fast or heavy/fast. Those internal modificiations in many cases do a whole bunch of other nice things. I personally don't see that being linked to PF.
 
Obviously, PF would have no impact on internal modifications such as trigger work.

I'm refering to recoil springs, and further 'tuning'
 
I shoot .40 cal. around 142 pf in a stock (with sights) Glock 22.

There is no definitive right or wrong between 9mm or 40. The caliber, weight of bullet, and powder will all change the feel.

It is ultimately what the shooter/gun combination likes.

As Madness has indicated: the end result is the skillset of the shooter.
 
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