what caliber for my new sheep rifle

retepnosflow said:
I see this thread had alot of input, just curious why no one has mentioned the 300WSM, is it too big or do people think it would add weight to a sheep rifle or is it a ballistics thing, I would really like your guys feedback on this, thanks guys.
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The 300 WSM is a great cartridge with ballistics that have performed admirably since the 300 H&H was reloaded (the original ballistics with cordite matched the 30-06 at the time).
It is a great cartridge in the mountains as it is flat, hard hitting and produces reasonable recoil in rifles of reasonable weight.
Bigbear is looking to build a sheep rifle on a long action with a standard bolt face. The 300 WSM doesn't fit that.
Your new HS should serve you well.
If you reload try some 168 TTSX's or 180 Accubonds and RL19 or H4350. If you don't, the factories have a flowing cornucopia of choices these days.
 
Not that I have any sheep experiance!!! But what about an extremely accurate .30-06 or the AI version of such!!!:eek:. With being in griz country and all!!! Put dials on the scope and learn how to shoot it at longer ranges!!


Something in the wildcat version How about a 6-284, 6.5-06 (AI) in mag bolt face if you go through the work .243-7mm mag!!!! 70 gr Barnes at stupid speeds:cool: A have seen one of these 6-7's and man do they shoot. 3/4" high at 100 and 18" low at 600" :eek: If I can recall his ballistics correctly?!?!?!? It will hollow out mule deer does when shot from a frontal position:D

Just my $.02
 
I didn't bother wading through the 11 pages of BS, but sheep rifle threads always turn out like Bear Protection threads with 95% of the guys spouting BS they've experienced from behind the PC (Hell, most guys I know that built "Sheep Rifles" don't even hunt sheep (despite their claims)).

As for the sheep rifle/bear country arguement...life is too short to be pissing your pants waiting for a grizz to jump out from behind every tree, and it will make very little/no difference what you have in your mitts at the time anyhow!

I've got a 280AI and a 7-08AI that I've packed on sheep hunts (a single 11day hunt for the 280AI and numerous long trips with the 7-08AI (my designated "sheep" rifle)). Killed two Stone's with the 7-08AI and none with the 280AI.

I'm biased towards the 280AI in a long action and the 7-08AI in a shorty, but honestly a sheep or grizz won't know the difference between the two, and you could throw the 270 Win and standard 280 Rem in the fray as well...all great sheep calibers (and the 7 Rem Mag if the boltface allowed it).

As for trajectory, minor detail....shoot 1 shot from each of the of the above calibers from your pack at 400 yards into a group and you'll likely not know which was which.

Be sure to post pics of the new rig (hopefully sitting beside a dead ram).
 
280_ACKLEY said:
I didn't bother wading through the 11 pages of BS, but sheep rifle threads always turn out like Bear Protection threads with 95% of the guys spouting BS they've experienced from behind the PC (Hell, most guys I know that built "Sheep Rifles" don't even hunt sheep (despite their claims)).

As for the sheep rifle/bear country arguement...life is too short to be pissing your pants waiting for a grizz to jump out from behind every tree, and it will make very little/no difference what you have in your mitts at the time anyhow!

I've got a 280AI and a 7-08AI that I've packed on sheep hunts (a single 11day hunt for the 280AI and numerous long trips with the 7-08AI (my designated "sheep" rifle)). Killed two Stone's with the 7-08AI and none with the 280AI.

I'm biased towards the 280AI in a long action and the 7-08AI in a shorty, but honestly a sheep or grizz won't know the difference between the two, and you could throw the 270 Win and standard 280 Rem in the fray as well...all great sheep calibers (and the 7 Rem Mag if the boltface allowed it).

As for trajectory, minor detail....shoot 1 shot from each of the of the above calibers from your pack at 400 yards into a group and you'll likely not know which was which.

Be sure to post pics of the new rig (hopefully sitting beside a dead ram).
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Yep, and congrats on the Stones.
 
retepnosflow said:
I see this thread had alot of input, just curious why no one has mentioned the 300WSM, is it too big or do people think it would add weight to a sheep rifle or is it a ballistics thing, I would really like your guys feedback on this, thanks guys.
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Because short mags are boring.:p Plus the OP (if I can remember that far back) wanted to use a standard length action.

This thread is better than a bear defense thread. There were a few bear defense hijack attempts, but chuck and rem338 managed to keep the whole thread on topic...kinda.
 
Bigbear said:
Thanks For all the input. I have decided to go with the 280 AI. I ordered my barrel today.
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You'll love it. Go onto 24hourcampfire and talk to Dogzapper about all of the elk he has shot with the 120gr BT out of the 280 and 7-08 AI. The guy has piled up a schwack (that is my technical term) of critters with 7mm cartridges. One bullet I have been meaning to try out of the .284 is the 120gr TTSX. Have heard good things and you should be able to get close to 3400fps with a 24" tube on the AI. 120grs in 120grs out should act just like a 150gr Partition at slower speed. Would be mighty flat too.

Post pics when your done!

BigUglyMan said:
Because short mags are boring.:p Plus the OP (if I can remember that far back) wanted to use a standard length action.

This thread is better than a bear defense thread. There were a few bear defense hijack attempts, but chuck and rem338 managed to keep the whole thread on topic...kinda.
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Sorry, I had to help your understatement there.......
 
rem338win said:
You'll love it. Go onto 24hourcampfire and talk to Dogzapper about all of the elk he has shot with the 120gr BT out of the 280 and 7-08 AI. The guy has piled up a schwack (that is my technical term) of critters with 7mm cartridges. One bullet I have been meaning to try out of the .284 is the 120gr TTSX. Have heard good things and you should be able to get close to 3400fps with a 24" tube on the AI. 120grs in 120grs out should act just like a 150gr Partition at slower speed. Would be mighty flat too.

Post pics when your done!



Sorry, I had to help your understatement there.......
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Not sure if he wants it known but if you know who 'Dogzapper' really is, you'd agree!!! :)
 
Right here, Sugar. Indirectly, but warrants a conviction.
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Not even a reasonable attempt to prove your earlier claim.But then again,I didn't expect any different from you.

Nope, cause that data is with a 26" tube and I have been talking 24" the whole time.
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There is no barrel length listed on the Nosler site,and your data including velocities,does not match the data given on the Nosler site.The load in Question is a load using R-22,not R-19.


Originally Posted by SakoAlberta View Post
It is historical fact that Bell spent time in the Yukon, mostly in the Dawson City area, shooting game to provide meat for the town.(John M. MacKenzie, 'The Empire of Nature, 1997) There were many 'hunters' making a living doing the same thing and sheep were the most valuable meat animal (Pierre Burton, 1975). While I know of no direct reference to Bell having killed a Dall Sheep, it is fact he was a 'meat hunter' in the YK and sheep were the most prized game in the area, then its reasonable to conclude there is a high probability that he did have experience with Dall Sheep.
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Don't confuse the issue with facts that lead to reasonable conclusions.Only rem338win can draw conclusions,everyone else must only post direct proof.He can plainly state that Bell never killed a Dall with no proof whatsoever to back up his claim,but you can't post information that may contradict his claim without positive proof.He sounds like a government employee,probably dealing with regulations of some sort.They are always right,sometimes even if you do provide evidence that contradicts their conclusions.
 
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Any data I have used from the Nosler manual with any caliber I have tested have shown the data to be way over inflated. The most recent is 7mm Rem Mag.

Nosler states: 24" 1-9 160gr @ 3046FPS with 61.5gr RL19

Out of 3 different 7mm's, 2 with 24" 1-9 & 1 with 23" 1-9 & 2 different chronys, we found results to be in the 2800FPS-2850FPS range. That's 250FPS-300FPS difference. I don't put much stock into there published #'s.

My friends custom 280 AI found similar results also. 139 Interbonds would not go much over 3000FPS. 3011FPS if I remember correctly. That's about 100FPS slower than listed online which is not as bad. In my #5 manual I believe the max load then was 58gr IMR4831 but I see it is 60gr is now listed as max online? I don't have my manual handy to confirm this. The manual does list a 1-9 24" barrel.

It's great to pump up the #'s to sound big, but range testing is more important than just going by the manual. Nosler is not the only manual I have found that's inflated either, there is others out there too.

Regardless I am impressed by what a 280 AI can do, I just think a 7mm Rem Mag looks ###ier! :D
 
Any data I have used from the Nosler manual with any caliber I have tested have shown the data to be way over inflated.
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My results do not agree.While I have not been able to match their velocity numbers with some Cartridges,I have been able to exceed them with other cartridges.One thing to keep in mind is that most companies posting data use premium barrels with minimum spec chambers,which often results in higher velocities than are produced with generous factory chambers and rough factory bores.Many of my rifles were built with premium barrels and minimum spec chambers,and those rifles often match or exceed the velocities published by Nosler.When chambers are oversize,it is often possible to safely increase the powder charge slightly and reach similar velocities to what Nosler publishes.

My friends custom 280 AI found similar results also. 139 Interbonds would not go much over 3000FPS. 3011FPS if I remember correctly.
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I have no problems driving the 140gr TTSX at 3070fps out of a 23" barrel using 59gr of imr4831.

The manual does list a 1-9 24" barrel.
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As does my manual,Nosler does not always use a 26" barrel for 280AI data.And Nosler does not even list a R-19 load for the 140gr bullet in the 280AI on their website.
 
The 7mm's In reference, 1 was a custom, & 2 were factory. The 50 FPS less was out of one of the factory barrels & that was out of a 23" barrel. If it was 24" it would have been similar to the other 2. 50FPS is about right per less inch on other rifles I've tested. There was virtually no FPS difference between a factory Sako 75 & a Gaillard barrel. If you check a Speer manual for example you will find max load data with a slower FPS that's much closer to the results I achieved.

I won't argue on your findings, but these are mine. This inflation has held true for the 300 WM I owned a 264 Win Mag I had and a few others to numerous to mention. I did own a 270 WSM that was however very close to posted data.

I am more inclined to believe varriance in FPS because the barrel is likely bolted down when tested, but I am not sure if that's what they do? Also once a case is fireformed & neck sized, that will take up any slop in the chamber, but a rough factory barrel could slow things down a bit still I guess.

Regardless range time is a good thing with your rifle to find exactly where your at. It doesn't matter if the speed is higher or lower than advertised, it's what it can do on paper.

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I am more inclined to believe varriance in FPS because the barrel is likely bolted down when tested, but I am not sure if that's what they do?
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Bolting down the barreled action will not result in a significant difference in velocity.

Also once a case is fireformed & neck sized, that will take up any slop in the chamber,
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An oversized chamber has more volume,so the same powder charge will produce less pressure in a larger volume chamber,which results in less velocity.A minimum spec chamber has less volume,so ,more pressure results,which in turn results in more velocity.

Noslers data for the 7mmstw is certainly much milder than that of most other sources.In my Nosler manuals,the maximum velocity for a 140gr bullet out of a 26" barrel is less than 3400fps,yet my own rifles achieve 3500fps which matches both the load and velocity in the Hodgdons manuals.

Noslers data for the 30-378 is even more mild,with their 180gr load over 200fps below the 180gr loads in some other manuals.
 
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