What constitues a repeating firearm in antiques

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" Rifles:

* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges (whether with a smooth or rifled bore), have a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine"

Would a pre 1898 lever action or bolt action centre fire rifle be excluded from the antique qualification? If so are there any notable exceptions?

My goal is to find an antique cartridge loaded rifle capable of deer and moose and as I read it I'd need to find a rimfire along the lines of a Henry or Spencer, but ammo would be a big problem.
 
I can't think of any repeaters that are antique so a single shot would be your next best bet. Try a Martini Henry in 577/450 or a Trapdoor Springfield in 45/70, they would both be good moose calibers. Of course being old black powder cartridge guns and designed to use black powder I would not use smokeless powder in either. There are many that do use modern smokeless powder and get away with it but also many have have not, why risk destroying an antique rifle or yourself.
 
No repeating centrefire rifle is an antique. Repeating rimfire rifles are antiques if pre 1898 and not .22 rf.
Pre 1898 centrefire single shots are antique if the bore diameter is over 8.3mm/.327". So, you have assinine situations like a Winchester single shot in .32-40 being modern, while the same rifle in .38-55 or .45-70 is antique.
There are ways of shooting large calibre rimfire rifles, usually involving a cartridge case which uses an offset .22rf case as the primer. Works better in single shots, though, than in repeaters. You cannot guarantee that the offset primer will be under the hammer in a repeater.
As Silverback has pointed out, there are antique single shots that are effective big game rifles.
 
The short version is...

If it holds more than one cartridge at a time and is centerfire, it is not considered an antique rifle.

I doubt that any of the larger rimfire guns would be worth looking at for a couple reasons. Value as a collector piece would stop me from wanting to modify it. You could pretty much count on the bore being boogered. The real possibility of having it blow up in my face, due to old age issues. The relatively low power of the rounds in the rimfire chamberings.
That's a start on reasons to not go that way.

In addition to the two guns mentioned above, there are the Sharps rifles ($$$, if original) the Remington rolling block rifles (reasonably cheap to get) and the Winchester Highwall model 1885 rifles (sorta all over the place, prices-wise)
Gotta be of a large enough bore size to call them antiques, too, but you can rebarrel ($$).

Cheers
Trev
 
The trapdoor Springfield cannot be loaded heavily enough for moose in my thinking. The only action strong enough to handle full cases of black powder with enough capacity to enable moose hunting would be the Martini Henry in 577-450. This should start a quarrel! Of course Rem RB, Sharps, Win highwall all in proper caliber would work. Dave
 
Oh, yeah.

You can modify something like the 41 swiss Vettereli to be able to hold a single round, if you have to have a boltgun.

Cheers
Trev
 
"...Trapdoor Springfield cannot be loaded heavily enough for moose..." It's a .45-70 that used a 405 grain cast bullet. Buffalo were killed with them in the 19th Century and since. A moose will be no problem with a properly placed shot.
"...577-450..." That uses the same diameter bullet as the .45-70. Albeit with a heavier bullet. You don't need a great big bullet for moose.
Everybody needs to remember that these stupid definitions weren't put there for the convenience of shooters. They're there to discourage shooting. If one new shooter or hunter decides it's too much trouble to start shooting or hunting, success is declared and the Socialist F**ks have a big party at thetax payer's expense.
 
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I'm not sure if I should start a separate thread for this question.
So what suggestions would you have as to where I might find a servicable single shot antique rifle with little in the way of collector value?

Things like replacement of fore/stock would not be much of problem to me.
 
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There are(or were) a couple sources for surplus Swede rolling blocks. A bunch of them were surplussed and found their way over to our shores.

Trade-Ex Canada was selling complete rifles from about $400 on up, depending on condition. They had some in a large bore caliber that were already antique status, and some in a smaller bore size that would qualify, once re-barreled. These were made at the end of the black powder era, when better quality steels were available, that any that the black powder era manufacturers had available to them.
Lot's of the Martini actions are about the place, too.

There are a fair few Highwalls about, ranging from very useable original condition guns, to overpriced junk. Watch the "for sales" and keep an eye out online. You will have to research serial numbers and have a pretty good idea of value and costs to complete. I have seen a few useable Highwalls at gun shows in the $1200-1400 range.

Figure to pay abot $650 or a bit either side for a Matrini in shootable shape.

Gunshows, the 'net, they are around.

Cheers
Trev
 
A couple of points; the law actually says non magazine rifles over roughly .34 cal (8.something mm) are antiques. The significants is that double rifles are antique if made before 1898 and of heavy caliber. The trade off is that they are very expensive and often a challenge to find loads that regulate well. Original guns with good bores, especially in North American calibers are also hard to find and expensive and you would probably be just as well off to buy an antique frame for a Martini or a rolling block and rebarrel and restock it to something like 45-70.
Finally guns like the Henry and the Spencer are pretty mediocre for deer and especially for moose. The original Henry load was I think around 25 grains of black powder and the Spencer is as I recall .53 cal (in spite of being called a 56-56) with about 30 grains of black.
Bottom line is you would be far better off counting on one good accurate shot from a powerful single shot than trying to work around a low powered rimfire repeater.

cheers mooncoon
 
Thank you very much for the guidance y'all, not sure where I'll start looking for a rolling block that will fit the bill. Maybe I'll stumble across a nice little old lady that will sell me the gun her grandpappy set away in oilcloth in the back of the attic ;)
 
Any of the old singleshots that qualify as "antiques" would do well on Moose, the 1885 "highwall", Rolling Block, Martini,Maynard,Sharps,Hepburn?,etc. Cals. of 45/70 and up would be easiest to load for, though some of the .40's and .44s had lots of jam.
 
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