What do we think about Spanish Mausers?

Savage12

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I have the oppurtunity to purchase for a very reasonable amount a spanish mauser re-barreled to .308. 1916 Carbine. I'm fairly certain its a carbine with the shorty barrel and the crest on the action appears to be 2 crossed swords. The bore is excellent.

I've heard that there are problems with pressures over 45K on these rifles, as that was the original spec design for the 7mm they started out in life with. I handload and not too concerned with high pressures.

Are they shooters? Do reloads give them a chance?

Thanks in advance, nothing compares to the combined knowledge of cgn with these questions.
 
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Which model is the one you're looking at? FR7 or FR8?

I had an FR8 and it was a great little rifle to shoot 7.62 Nato in.
 
Then Spanish rifles are chambered for .308 CREMTE same dimentions as the 308 win but loaded to lower preasures.Spanish steel is always suspect but many use full powered 7.62X51 ammo in them with no issues............JFYOI..................Harold
 
It's neither an FR7 nor an FR8 - it's a Guardia Civil conversion of a 1916 carbine.

I would not shoot anything but handloads on the milder side in milsurp brass, were it mine. Commercial thin brass and hot loads COULD be too much for the gun - I wouldn't want to find out the hard way though.
 
How about rifles chambered in 7mm Mauser? I have one still in grease at home (can't remember the model off the top of my head at the moment). I should take some pictures and see what you guys think.
 
I recall reading that the Spanish Mausers were a little light on provisions for venting in the event of a case failure or pierced primer. That'd worry me some.

On the other hand, the 7x57 cartridge is proof that God wants you to shoot. If the Spaniard shows no signs of abuse and gets a thumbs-up from a smith, I'd shoot it.
 
I dont want to Hijack your thread but ihave a question about the Spanish Mausers as i cant find the right info for some reason..

I have a Spainish Mauser dated 1913 from OVIEDO Spain... i am New to Guns and this is one thats been around my Grandparents farm for a long time Nobody has shot it as long as my Grandfather has owned it because nobody new what it was untill i looked it up..

Can anyone give me any info or point me in the right direction?

Thanks and sorry for hijacking your thread!
 
A few comments are in order based upon the questions in this thread.

First of all, I have recently recieved a 1916 Spanish Short rifle myself, and after doing some reasearch discovered a loading for 150gr bullets with IMR3031 that should keep pressures under 40K, while providing about 2400-2500 fps. I'd have to look it up again to get the exact charge weight, which I recall being somewhere just under 40grains. The rifle could probably take a bit more pressure as found in standard 7.62 NATO charges, but I don't feel any need to puch it hard, especially when it's a short rifle that's already prone to kick back! The rifle in question had been fired by the previous owner using some .308 loads with no signs of problems, but I have heard of Indian Enfields quickly gaining headspace after shooting only several boxes of .308 and I don't want to shorten the life of my new acquisition. I'd have loaded up some rounds by now, but would first like to repair a rather lengthy crack at the tang before taking her out to shoot.

A couple other milsurp forums have sections dedicated to Spanish and South American Mausers and might be a good place to go to if anyone wants to reasearch these rifles any further. There's at least one article about the 7.62 vs .308 issue at surplusrifle.com, and certainly others.

As to the supposed weaknesses of the Mauser 93-95 actions that have been used on these guns, it should be remembered that the third locking lug that was added to the 98 action is only for the event of a catastrophic failure of the two at the head of the bolt. The earlier Spanish Mausers (pre M43, the Spanish rifle based on the 98 action) #### on closing. The 98 is also better equipped to direct gases away from your face in the event of a case head separation, but if you make it a habit to wear eye protection whenever you shoot these, that should suffice. Similar questions have been raised about the many Turk Model 1893 Mausers that were imported years ago, though with the caveat of always wearing eye protection and avoiding really hot loadings, they seem to be providing people with lots of range time without any problems. The question also comes up alot around the Swedish M96 actions, though I'm not sure if they have some extra venting ability when it comes to ruptured cases.

If you have a Spanish Mauser in the original 7x57 chambering, then you are a lucky person, since that's a really nice cartridge, at least by all of the accounts that I've read about them (it's one that I don't have).

Spanish and German M93 Mausers in 7x57 were really cutting edge weapons in their day, inflicting heavy casualties on the American troops in Cuba and the British in South Africa. Their slick bolt action, stripper clip loading and flat trajectory of the 7mm Mauser gave them a decided advantage over the Trapdoor Springfields, Krags and early Lee Enfields that lacked a stripper clip guide. The last time I saw a 7mm Chambered Chilean M95 for sale, the asking price was alot more than a typical Mosin, or what a Lee Enfield would have gone for a couple of years ago.

There's my two cents!

Frank
 
Well I was wrong, it's not in 7mm. I took a round of 7mm and the bullet slid easily into the muzzle. Must be at least .30 cal. 308 maybe? The bore is full of dust and nearly solidified cosmoline, as is the rest of the rifle. Not sure if I want to put in the effort to clean it out enough to do a chamber cast.

Here are some pics. Can anyone discern anything? Obviously the stock has been replaced at some point and it's missing the cleaning rod. The cosmo is caked on pretty well everywhere. The bolt cocks on closing (Model 1893?).


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IMG_2743.jpg

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I suppose that there were some M93 Mausers chambered in 8mm or later on upgraded to that calibre, just like the 1893 Turks that were modified from 7.65mm to 8mm in the 1930s. While I'm aware that the Spanish used 8mm for the M43 rifles produced during WW2 and beyond, perhaps someone else here could inform us about when they originally adopted the cartridge en masse. Though many carbines are found converted to 7.62 NATO, I haven't heard about it being done to any long rifles, though some Chilean M95s were thus modified and available as surplus years ago.

Since the bore is gooped in cosmoline, remember that many older rifles were counterbored during rearsenalling, a factor which may account for your bullet dropping into the muzzle. It sounds as though you should just send the rifle to me to clean up, shoot and keep forever............ just kidding.

It would be curious to see what that rifle would look like after a thorough cleaning. They aren't encountered very often anymore, are historically interesting rifles, and with luck still accurate to shoot. Perhaps someone who's truly expert on these rifles could pipe up with further information.

Cheers,

Frank
 
Its personal preference. The Model 16 action was re-used to manufacture the FR7. I've heard all kinds of remarks on the suitability of the action strength on the 7.62 round. I don't believe a word of it. They are strong enough for any milsurp 7.62 NATO ammo. Has anyone here heard of a failure with these actions shooting milspec ammo? I don't think so... Rumours start and before you know it everyone believe the Jungle Carbine has a wandering zero :)

From my perspective I would prefer the large ring LA CORUNA 98 action (FR8) over the FR7 simply because I'm not a big fan of #### on closing on small ring mausers. It just doesn't feel right to me. Like I said its all personal preference.

As for the rifle above - to me it looks like a Model 1895 small ring mauser. Very popular with the boers in south africa and the spanish. Nice find and collector. It should be in 7X57. Make sure the muzzle hasn't been counter bored or that the muzzle isn't completely worn out (thus accepting a .308" bullet.

Clean her up and take her to your favorite gunsmith for an inspection.
I'd sure like to see pics of her once you've cleaned her up.

For s**ts and giggles here is a paper I wrote on cleaning milsurp stocks. Since I wrote this article I've stopped using oveN cleaner. I only use this stuff for the worst of the worst banged up stocks now. It looks like all you need is the BBQ treatment. Use the level of cleaning suitable to the level of grunge on your wood. Just avoid using any sandpaper and let your stock dry in a semi-humid enivornment. RESTORING MILSURP STOCKS
 
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I had a minty Guardia Civil conversion of a 1916 carbine in 7.62. Appeared scrubbed with no markings what so ever. I handloaded reduced loads, only to discover that the chamber was deformed. Ejected cases were bulged on one side so badly thay they could no longer be resized. I chalked this up to someone using NATO pressure rounds. I sold it for parts for $75.00. Too bad....it was a nice rifle. I may be paranoid, but I will never buy a SM mauser action again.
 
Thats a real bummer OneBarfly.
If its any consolation a bud of mine had a mint No1MkIII* with the same problem. I think it just comes down to luck I guess.

Sometimes the cards just don't work out for ya.
I don't think that should preclude you from small ring mausers.
There are some dandy jems out there that are small ring mausers.

Like Hungry says
"Peace be to Journey".
What ever turns your fancy?

Great now I'm quoting quotes from other quotes...
When will the strangeness cease? :)
 
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Spanish Mausers

I have a few of the Spanish mausers in my collection;
  1. Two 1893's in 7mm
  2. Two Different Model 1895 Carbines 7mm
  3. Three Model 1916's two in 7.62 & one in 7mm
  4. One Model 43 in 7.92X57
  5. One FR-7, 7.62
  6. One FR-8, 7.62
  7. One Model 1933, 7.92X57

The FR-7 is built on the M1893 & M1985 actions.
The FR-8 is built on the Model 98 action.
That's why the guys want the FR-8 because it can handle a NATO round.
 
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