mossyhorns
CGN Regular
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
You bet
what do you classify as a 'premium' hunting rifle?
- Thread starter Mr. Friendly
- Start date
You bet
mossyhorns
CGN Regular
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
You took the words right out of my mouth. My most accurate rifle is a Savage and I have no issues going afield with it or any rifle I have confidence in.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
This is not how you play devil's advocate! Let me try:
Cooper Excalibur Model 54
Chunky monkey comes to mind.
Since we're talking hunting rifles, I don't recall the last time I fired a nice, tight, 3 shot group into an animal. 'Nuff said.
I find it quite entertaining how people can seriously argue two positions at once:
- Everything cheaper that they can afford is "rought and ineffective"
- Everything more expensive that they can afford is "not effective and just ### trim finish"
Yet somehow from the Hunting rig survey data we can see only 1 guy hunting with $100 mossin and 29 Sako's and 7 Coopers. But 98 Remingtons are sure that they dont need that ### finish and trim.
- Everything cheaper that they can afford is "rought and ineffective"
- Everything more expensive that they can afford is "not effective and just ### trim finish"
Yet somehow from the Hunting rig survey data we can see only 1 guy hunting with $100 mossin and 29 Sako's and 7 Coopers. But 98 Remingtons are sure that they dont need that ### finish and trim.
Why do these discussions always go the way of "the deer/elk/moose don't know the difference" Some people have rifles just to collect. Some guys shoot paper,while others enjoy the journey of a custom-build.
Not all "sporting arms" are purchased for utility alone.
I've hunted with open-sighted Enfield sporters and full custom builds alike. Never for one second did I give a flyin' f what a deer thought of my rifle either way.
Not all "sporting arms" are purchased for utility alone.
I've hunted with open-sighted Enfield sporters and full custom builds alike. Never for one second did I give a flyin' f what a deer thought of my rifle either way.
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Some folks need to go to Prophet Rivers website and search firearm prices from high to low, a real humbling experience for guys who think a Cooper or even their 4000$ custom build is the bees-knees.
There is always someone out there with something better. Lifes too short.
There is always someone out there with something better. Lifes too short.
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Nice Eagleye! I'd hunt with them too
If you are not going to hunt with it, why have it? JMHO.
I hunt with these:
Cheers, Dave.
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- Location
- Lloydminster, Alberta
You sould see some of the firearms that go through that never make the site. A $60K Purdy SxS was in just a few weeks ago. :O
I dont know man....my dad and I sure like Hunting and Killing Trophy class Animals with Cooper rifles....Mind you the R93 blaser,S2 sxs blaser,Hart custom ,Martini and hagn custom and 3 corlane customs were ok too....not great,but ok!
It Still amazes me how I can walk ,so many miles a day with a ten pound firearm???
I am a regular visitor to the site, brightens my day to see some of those beauties you bring in Clay.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I've taken rifles up to around $15,000 afield, and there are a good few in Africa who balk at that as a budget premium rifle. That gets you into the budget end of quality double rifles for instance.
So for me, the answer isn't a hard line in dollars or features, it's what for you is special and premium- and that doesn't mean if that's a Winchester or Cooper for you, you're poor. I've met plenty of multimillionaire hunters (no shortage in and on their way to / from Africa) who use say Rugers, Winchesters, Remingtons. Doug, one of our own multimillionaire hunters has had great success with a Remington 700 for instance, though he owns a plethora more.
Any rifle that is a cut above to you, for your uses, is premium- we all like to get rid of our money different ways. Even with forays into the tens of thousands for guns, my Ruger RSM still feels premium to me.
So for me, the answer isn't a hard line in dollars or features, it's what for you is special and premium- and that doesn't mean if that's a Winchester or Cooper for you, you're poor. I've met plenty of multimillionaire hunters (no shortage in and on their way to / from Africa) who use say Rugers, Winchesters, Remingtons. Doug, one of our own multimillionaire hunters has had great success with a Remington 700 for instance, though he owns a plethora more.
Any rifle that is a cut above to you, for your uses, is premium- we all like to get rid of our money different ways. Even with forays into the tens of thousands for guns, my Ruger RSM still feels premium to me.
Money spoil everything. I'm sure that if ANYONE had a $60k gun but could not sell it ever, they would carry this instead of any "effective $799 on sale".
Its just in real life some people have cash and understand that soon they wont need anything at all. And all others either have no cash or... overestimate their own lifetime.
Its just in real life some people have cash and understand that soon they wont need anything at all. And all others either have no cash or... overestimate their own lifetime.
- Location
- Lloydminster, Alberta
Thanks!! Give it a couple days, have about 10 new custom classic coopers just in and almost ready to list. There are a few with upgrades and one 280 AI that's about as nice as I've seen. (sorry, don't want to derail!)
- Location
- British Canuckistan
I was going to say owl...perhaps what we would consider as the entry level previously could now be considered premium? with the cost of the Axis and the XL7 and the new Ruger American...a $300/$400 rifle can be had that is a tack driver, just lacks in the fit/finish and name/illustriousness of the more expensive options. have the $700 - $1000 M70's, Rem 700's, Browning X and A Bolts become the new premium while elevating everything higher/better than them even further?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You just nailed something important. I've been steadily both making more, and getting rid of guns and converting them into experiences. One day, everything material, the house, classic car, the nice guns will all be meaningless. I only have stipulations in my will for three guns, two Rugers and a Cooey, everything else no matter how "nice" just is polish and not truly important. Experiences you can take to the grave, fancy crap even though I own too much of it, absolutely not. I hope to die with two Rugers, a Cooey, and a couple other special, cheap but quality guns. And a whole lot of hunts under the belt.
Emotional value can not be evaluated in the case we are trying to discuss here. We are talking about a purchase of a new rifle - Kimber or Savage. No matter what you choose it has zero emotional attachment until you start making memories with it.
But obviously I would agree with you on a point that experience can bind a man to any object no matter of objective cash value.
But obviously I would agree with you on a point that experience can bind a man to any object no matter of objective cash value.
You know, there are a lot of rifle snobs out there.
I will confess, I am one of them.
I don't like Browning Bolt Rifles made in the last 30 years and I don't fancy Savage Bolt Rifles either.
The Brownings, are just a pain in the butt. The Savage, is just plain fugly. The one thing the later Savages have going for them, is that they shoot extremely well. Even their base line models.
That being said, nothing is going to change my mind on my preferences so don't even bother, Please.
OK, IMHO the best hunting rifle for anyone, is one that fits him/her properly, comes to eye and shoulder simultaneously and is accurate.
I couldn't care less if it has a composite or wood stock. It has to meet the above criteria or be capable of being modified to do so. If I had to, I would settle for a Savage, if that were all that was available and be confident it would do the job.
All the rest is just fluff.
I myself, am bogged down with fluff so don't take any of this as an insult, it sincerely isn't meant that way.
I will confess, I am one of them.
I don't like Browning Bolt Rifles made in the last 30 years and I don't fancy Savage Bolt Rifles either.
The Brownings, are just a pain in the butt. The Savage, is just plain fugly. The one thing the later Savages have going for them, is that they shoot extremely well. Even their base line models.
That being said, nothing is going to change my mind on my preferences so don't even bother, Please.
OK, IMHO the best hunting rifle for anyone, is one that fits him/her properly, comes to eye and shoulder simultaneously and is accurate.
I couldn't care less if it has a composite or wood stock. It has to meet the above criteria or be capable of being modified to do so. If I had to, I would settle for a Savage, if that were all that was available and be confident it would do the job.
All the rest is just fluff.
I myself, am bogged down with fluff so don't take any of this as an insult, it sincerely isn't meant that way.
Ardent, ease up on that multimillionaire stuff ! I probably would be if I didn't spend so much on cars and guns and hunting LOL.
I have used 700 Rems since I was a kid and have never been let down by them, another reason I take a 700 Rem everywhere in the world to hunt is there is always a very real possibility that it may never make it home to me. As much as that would agitate me a 700 Rem is easily replaced tomorrow, a full blown custom or $20K double or even my Sako Safari is a whole 'nother deal.
You made another good point that my $10K Merkel is classed as an entry level double, much like a Ruger American is to bolt guns, reliable, accurate and totally functional but nothing to compare to a Holland Royal...............I just won't pay $70,000 for a rifle..............well, not yet anyway. Premium pricing is directly relevant to the type of rifle you're discussing, and lots of guys hunt their $10-100K doubles.
The biggest problem in this thread is the OP neglected to define what he deems a PREMIUM rifle. To me, a true premium rifle must be AAA fancy walnut stocked, impeccably finished with absolutely perfect checkering, deeply and flawlessly blued, perfectly inletted and fit and point like a high end double shotgun. After those considerations it should shoot into 1 MOA or better. If you can get your hands on something like this for 300 bucks then great, but chances are it will be 10-20X that.
I just can't agree that any rifle that punches 1/2" groups defines a premium rifle, hell an ugly 600 dollar Savage can do that and it is about as far from premium in my estimation as one can get. I'm afraid I can't call a synthetic stocked rifle a premium firearm either, utilitarian, certainly and they make a lot of sense for stability and weight reduction and some cost a lot of money, but they just don't make my estimation of a PREMIUM rifle. Maybe they do to some folks and maybe my definition is more in line with a FINE rifle, but premium to me has always meant a significant step up from the average, quality rifles. I've seen a few Coopers and they are nice but still fall short for me, they could be improved some in both fit and finish and the ergonomics don't feel good to me, a little clubby in the forend. My Sako Safari is ergonomically far superior to me but the fit and finish are still that of a production rifle and the wood has very little figure in any I've seen. I reserve the term premium for as near perfection as can be achieved, and no production line or semi custom rifle I've seen has that final 5% that designates a true premium rifle. Accurate, reliable and good fitting describe a utilitarian rifle to me not a premium one. For those who wish to view some truly premium rifles may I suggest you take a look at some of Martin Hagn's work, now that is what a premium rifle is to me. Again JMHO.
I have used 700 Rems since I was a kid and have never been let down by them, another reason I take a 700 Rem everywhere in the world to hunt is there is always a very real possibility that it may never make it home to me. As much as that would agitate me a 700 Rem is easily replaced tomorrow, a full blown custom or $20K double or even my Sako Safari is a whole 'nother deal.
You made another good point that my $10K Merkel is classed as an entry level double, much like a Ruger American is to bolt guns, reliable, accurate and totally functional but nothing to compare to a Holland Royal...............I just won't pay $70,000 for a rifle..............well, not yet anyway. Premium pricing is directly relevant to the type of rifle you're discussing, and lots of guys hunt their $10-100K doubles.
The biggest problem in this thread is the OP neglected to define what he deems a PREMIUM rifle. To me, a true premium rifle must be AAA fancy walnut stocked, impeccably finished with absolutely perfect checkering, deeply and flawlessly blued, perfectly inletted and fit and point like a high end double shotgun. After those considerations it should shoot into 1 MOA or better. If you can get your hands on something like this for 300 bucks then great, but chances are it will be 10-20X that.
I just can't agree that any rifle that punches 1/2" groups defines a premium rifle, hell an ugly 600 dollar Savage can do that and it is about as far from premium in my estimation as one can get. I'm afraid I can't call a synthetic stocked rifle a premium firearm either, utilitarian, certainly and they make a lot of sense for stability and weight reduction and some cost a lot of money, but they just don't make my estimation of a PREMIUM rifle. Maybe they do to some folks and maybe my definition is more in line with a FINE rifle, but premium to me has always meant a significant step up from the average, quality rifles. I've seen a few Coopers and they are nice but still fall short for me, they could be improved some in both fit and finish and the ergonomics don't feel good to me, a little clubby in the forend. My Sako Safari is ergonomically far superior to me but the fit and finish are still that of a production rifle and the wood has very little figure in any I've seen. I reserve the term premium for as near perfection as can be achieved, and no production line or semi custom rifle I've seen has that final 5% that designates a true premium rifle. Accurate, reliable and good fitting describe a utilitarian rifle to me not a premium one. For those who wish to view some truly premium rifles may I suggest you take a look at some of Martin Hagn's work, now that is what a premium rifle is to me. Again JMHO.
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- Location
- Steel Town and The Peg
Well said and 100% in line with my thinking. I have 1 "almost-premium" rifle that was masterfully handmade by a BC smith, but it was intended to be used... by an average guy: no intricate engravings, and while the blonde walnut has a beautiful tiger-stripe grain pattern, and the bluing is deep and shiney, and the hand checkering is perfect, there are far nicer and more exotic presentation grade wood stocks out there. Nonetheless, when I compare the fit and finish of this fine rifle to my production Sakos, and other expensive production rifles, there's absolutely no comparison. It's all about the man hours of wood and metal finishing and select grade walnuts... something that is reflected in the price. Is it a better shooter than my Sakos? No. Will it last longer than my Sakos? No... but when I hold it I understand the meaning of craftsmenship. Hunting is not just about that final shot that downs your game. This rifle has a few minor dings and a few minor safe kisses, but I enjoy it and wouldn't have it any other way.
