What do you think of a M14 muzzle brake front sight combo?

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suprathepeg

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We're playing with some muzzle brake designs for th m14 right now and want some opinions on design features.

On my shorty-14 (Thanks alot Laz!) I have a 3 port brake and I found it turned the rifle into a really easy tactical shooter. Not only was there no effect on accuracy (sub MOA) but rapid rate 5 shot groups are very fast. The thing that really sux about it, is that I need to use the Navy front sight for irons.

We started thinking about a brake that would allow the shooter to retain their factory front sights. So here are some questions we have for the other CGNers out there:

1. Is there a market for a brake that incorporates a dovetail that will accept your factory front sight?
1a. If we could bring it to market for $120CAD would people want in?
2. Is there a market for one that would be direct replacement for the factory flash hider and retain the castle nut? So essentially you would remove your norc front sight assembly and replace it with a brake that included the front sight.
3. For shortened barrels would a different attachment method without the castle nut be desired
3a. what threading and diameter would be desired for this?

Tell us about the things you would want in a brake for the m14!
 
I'll take one in standard splined config, 3 port is great, just like the dlask but maybe with a thinner profile.
this idea, would be a winner for sure, crank up those machines boys :D
you WILL need to make them for both shorty barrels (1/2 x 28 tpi) and standard as well.
 
What do you think about the brakes being made of a high strength aluminum alloy? This would make them very light.
 
A muzzle brake with front sight for a shorty? I'll take one.

As mentioned, threading should be the universal 1/2 x 28TPI)
 
WHat Winz and 45ACPKING said. Lots of guys have more than one m14/305, some short, some long. There would be a market for both splines AND short/threaded. I'd be interested for sure.
 
I suspect that most of us who have built shorties, are less than thrilled with the Gas Ring Front Sights. The GRFS are OK for short ranges, but all of them that I have tried are inherently loose and can rotate SEVERAL degrees when the gas plug comes out. So you basically have to resight the 14 after cleaning. And this is NOT a good thing.

PLUS, the GRFS can't hide any visible mis-alignment due to a poorly indexed barrel, although you can rotate the gas assembly slightly by peening on only one side of the slots.

For a better solution, take a look at the Yankee Hill Machine M-14 TWO PIECE arrangement.

Part 1.] a standard AR 15 / Phantom type flashider that screws on to a shorty barrel at the muzzle with standard 1/2" X 28 TPI, [ and can be quickly interchanged to a muzzle brake if desired].

Part 2.] a Front Sight Base that CLAMPS on the barrel just behind the FH/Muzzle brake. YHM uses two screws as clamps across a split in the barrel mounting portion for their FSB, and my custom built M14 FSB uses two set screws. Unfortunately, my set screw design requires a very tight fit and is almost a custom "one off" solution.

The clamp on design is inherently better for an M-14 FSB, because the O.D. on Chinese built barrels can vary considerably [ + .005" in the ones I've sampled. PLUS, the Chinese barrels are usually quite a bit smaller than GI barrels.

Therefor, the clamp on design, with some built in adjustability, works better for an M-14 FSB. But, I certainly would NOT trust a clamp on arrangement as a Flash Hider, and absolutely NOT for a compensator/Muzzle brake. The two part YHM design is a very inovative and useful arrangement for this application.

As for muzzle brakes for the full length 22" barrels, FORGET about labor intensive splines ... other manufacturers like YHM and Smith have BTDT, and have their designs already on the market, and unless you can build a better mousetrap cheaper, you ain't gonna sell many of those.

The Dlask system, which threads on the M305 at the muzzle using existing threads, and indexes with three set screws that fit into the barrel slots, is another good design. Unfortunately, Dlask does not include a FSB with his design. This would be another excellent candidate for a two piece FSB/brake, but of course the OD of the barrel at 21" is going to be considerably smaller, and the FSB for a shorty must be about 1/8" taller than an FSB for a longy, otherwise the rear sight might not go down low enough to zero the firearm.

So these are a few things to consider when fooling around with the front end of an M-14.
[;{)
Just my humble opinion,
LAZ
 
Wow lots of really good responses! Here are some of my thoughts right now:

4. If our design used 1 spline do you think it would be enough? We're just thinking that way a smith could machine one slot in the barrel when they are threading it so that one design could be used for both shortened and standard barrels?

5. whay does the front sight need to be lower on a shorty? Wouldn't it need to be the same height?

So far we are looking to service the Canadian market so we're going to look at US spec barrels later on. There are WAYY more Norc M14s here then anything else and they are all better candidates for upgrade then the M1A etc.
 
Sorry to add an inexperienced comment...but what does a break give you and can it be used on a non-cut-down barrell?

Berger
 
berger said:
Sorry to add an inexperienced comment...but what does a break give you and can it be used on a non-cut-down barrell?

Berger
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_brake

and yes berger they can. The thing we are looking for is the best option or best arrangement of options for the m14. Time will tell but I think it will be a hit already!

Thanks again Laz for all your info and help! Can you explain why it should be lower on the 18.5 bbl rifles?
 
Sounds like you are talking about making a copy of the Smith Enterprises M14 US Coast Guard / Navy Muzzle Brake.

M14_USCG_Muzzle_Brake.lg.jpg



suprathepeg said:
We're playing with some muzzle brake designs for th m14 right now and want some opinions on design features.

On my shorty-14 (Thanks alot Laz!) I have a 3 port brake and I found it turned the rifle into a really easy tactical shooter. Not only was there no effect on accuracy (sub MOA) but rapid rate 5 shot groups are very fast. The thing that really sux about it, is that I need to use the Navy front sight for irons.

We started thinking about a brake that would allow the shooter to retain their factory front sights. So here are some questions we have for the other CGNers out there:

1. Is there a market for a brake that incorporates a dovetail that will accept your factory front sight?
1a. If we could bring it to market for $120CAD would people want in?
2. Is there a market for one that would be direct replacement for the factory flash hider and retain the castle nut? So essentially you would remove your norc front sight assembly and replace it with a brake that included the front sight.
3. For shortened barrels would a different attachment method without the castle nut be desired
3a. what threading and diameter would be desired for this?

Tell us about the things you would want in a brake for the m14!
Click to expand...
 
OK,
experience talking, not theory.

No matter what the digital calipers and math tells you, the regular M14 front sight height just does NOT work out right with the shorties. This is EXPERIENCE, not math talking here. Don't know exactly why this is so [ maybe ?Harmonics? ] and don't really care, just know it is so.

One solution is to grind about 1/4" off the rear sight geared "leg". to allow the rear sight to go down further. This fixes the sight barrel alignment/zeroing issue, but then you've got a rear sight that is so low, that it doesn't allow proper cheek weld with the regular stock for anyone with a fat face.
Not so good [ I am one of those luck shooters who have a fat face [;{( ]

SO,
Like I said earlier,
check out Smith's catelog ...
He makes two different height GRFS using M-14 front sight blades, and they are definitely designed specifically for two different barrel lengths.

2013 M14 GLFS-D-18 (Dovetail)
(USN & USAF)
Chrome-moly, highly advanced metallurgical process, heat treated. For 18.0" barrel (i.e. MK14 SEI).

2011 M14 GLFS-D-22 Dovetail
Chrome-moly, highly advanced metallurgical process, heat treated. Designed for 22.0" barrels.

And you can see from the pictures and the specs, the shorty GRFS is higher.

NOTE: the HOODED [ three circle ] GRFS design uses a removable post, and it can be raised or lowered to suit either barrel length. I generally replace the round post with a section of appropriate sized allen wrench. The front sight blade at 18" should be a lot thinner than at 22" for a proper front sight picture.

PPS: If you want to hire me as a consultant on this project, let me know ... I don't mind giving my M-14 ideas and experience away for free.
This is why Thomas and I do the Wet Coast M-14 Group Gropes.

But if you want an honest evaluation of your prototypes,
be prepared for HONEST criticism .... And I keep all the test samples.

This is the same deal I had when I was the Gear Editor for a bicycle magazine.
[;{)
TTFN
LAZ 1
 
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