what dog for ducks and grouse?

riversrest said:
How about a classic North American breed? I have a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.

Mine has well developed gun/birddog instincts. Her swimming abilties and determination are unreal as well as her devotion to guard home & family. Very happy having her.

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RR
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Two thumbs up.

Having said that I could have just about each breed here happily.
 
Very possibly have a different story to tell had I hunted with a trained springer. My buddy had a beautiful little girl but unfortunately gun shy out of the gate. Not sure what went wrong with her as my buddy is fairly experienced dog person. The pointer suits me, Hoyt, because (had an English setter, two Brittanies, now a started Gordon Setter) they get birdy, go to point and then we work the bird so I can get an angle for the shot and initiate the flush if things go well. This is the important part. With the springer, now this is a guess on my part, the birds get pushed and will explode whenever. Given the cover around here this would mean often zero shot as too many trees in the way. My second Brittany, Harley, was an incredible little hunter but would get a bit impatient with me if he was holding point and the bird started to move. Max, the english setter, was a grouse machine, did not have enough time for Max as three kids, mortgage etc but pretty much self trained. Would hold for an hour and move in on command. Excellent with the kids as well. Unfortunately I am pretty much on my own when it comes bird hunting with a dog around here so cannot compare notes. Springers are beautiful dogs, though Brittany's are prettier :).

hoytcanon said:
You have not hunted over a properly trained flushing breed. I can walk to a thicket, signal my Springer to circle and work the cover toward me with verbal or whistle commands (or hand signals when she is in sight) and have her flush the birds right to me.
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Bland said:
Very possibly have a different story to tell had I hunted with a trained springer. My buddy had a beautiful little girl but unfortunately gun shy out of the gate. Not sure what went wrong with her as my buddy is fairly experienced dog person. The pointer suits me, Hoyt, because (had an English setter, two Brittanies, now a started Gordon Setter) they get birdy, go to point and then we work the bird so I can get an angle for the shot and initiate the flush if things go well. This is the important part. With the springer, now this is a guess on my part, the birds get pushed and will explode whenever. Given the cover around here this would mean often zero shot as too many trees in the way. My second Brittany, Harley, was an incredible little hunter but would get a bit impatient with me if he was holding point and the bird started to move. Max, the english setter, was a grouse machine, did not have enough time for Max as three kids, mortgage etc but pretty much self trained. Would hold for an hour and move in on command. Excellent with the kids as well. Unfortunately I am pretty much on my own when it comes bird hunting with a dog around here so cannot compare notes. Springers are beautiful dogs, though Brittany's are prettier :).
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I guess we will agree to disagree... I do not like the pace of hunting with pointers, I like the interactive hunting style of flushing breeds... that is not to say that I don't appreciate pointing breeds, having owned and trained and hunted three over the past 40 years... but I do not like creeping in on pointed birds ready for the shot... vastly preferring to have the dog work and flush the birds... that is not to say that you are caught by surprise when hunting springers, any dog handler can tell when their dog is "birdy." As far as hunting thick brush goes, it doesn't get thicker than our grouse and woodcock cover in NorOnt and our springers work the cover and birds effectively providing good shooting. As far as looks go... hmmm... Springer over Brittany... Brittany over Shar Pei... purely subjective of course... just nice to see folks in the field with any hunting breed... and I can appreciate the hard work and training that goes into any field dog, and it is nice to watch them work.
 
One thing I have not done is hunt for woodcock, definitely on the list. Max, was so hard wired for pointing that he went on point one day as a pup when he was being run on a trail with my bike. We were scooting along and I had to lay the bike down or hit him. It was a very clear illustration of hard wired hunting instinct and made an indelible impression on me as far as breeding for traits. Purely subjective as far as looks go for sure, that was just a shot. Still have not had the heart to take Harley down as my avatar, just can't seem to do it. Lucy comes from Wisconsin and has very strong hunting bloodlines and is coming along nicely. Still getting too excited once the bird starts to move but should get that under control this season. Strong recall. -38C this morning, getting some Ontario weather on this clear Sunday morning.

hoytcanon said:
I guess we will agree to disagree... I do not like the pace of hunting with pointers, I like the interactive hunting style of flushing breeds... that is not to say that I don't appreciate pointing breeds, having owned and trained and hunted three over the past 40 years... but I do not like creeping in on pointed birds ready for the shot... vastly preferring to have the dog work and flush the birds... that is not to say that you are caught by surprise when hunting springers, any dog handler can tell when their dog is "birdy." As far as hunting thick brush goes, it doesn't get thicker than our grouse and woodcock cover in NorOnt and our springers work the cover and birds effectively providing good shooting. As far as looks go... hmmm... Springer over Brittany... Brittany over Shar Pei... purely subjective of course... just nice to see folks in the field with any hunting breed... and I can appreciate the hard work and training that goes into any field dog, and it is nice to watch them work.
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“Unfortunately, not all dogs are so friendly, we have run into a few that were quite aggressive.”

The times I have ran into dogs like that in the field, their owners displayed similar behaviour. Usually quick to brag their dog is a bad ass. I feel sorry for their dogs and feel embarrassed for the owner.
 
Bland said:
One thing I have not done is hunt for woodcock, definitely on the list. Max, was so hard wired for pointing that he went on point one day as a pup when he was being run on a trail with my bike. We were scooting along and I had to lay the bike down or hit him. It was a very clear illustration of hard wired hunting instinct and made an indelible impression on me as far as breeding for traits. Purely subjective as far as looks go for sure, that was just a shot. Still have not had the heart to take Harley down as my avatar, just can't seem to do it. Lucy comes from Wisconsin and has very strong hunting bloodlines and is coming along nicely. Still getting too excited once the bird starts to move but should get that under control this season. Strong recall. -38C this morning, getting some Ontario weather on this clear Sunday morning.
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The Shar Pei comment was my counter punch... lol.

Woodcock are fun, and the ideal bird for pointers as they hold tighter and longer than pretty much any other species.

Hunting instinct is readily apparent when you get a pup into the field. This is my four month old Springer (Minnesota dog), when she put up and retrieved a limit of grouse and a few woodcock, at the time I was pretty much only working on obedience and light retrieving... the bottom picture is 30+ years old, "Shellcase" has been gone for 20 years... but even at four months, it was obvious when she got onto hot bird scent, her tail would start going a mile a minute and her movements became tight and sharp. The top picture is of my current Springer "Lexie" with a batch of Sharpies... there have been several dogs between the two.
 
^Laugh2

Her expression... priceless.

The tail thing always kills me too... when it starts spinning in tight circles I know it's about to go down. Like a little radar dish on overdrive.
 
Westward1 said:
That is quite a picture. I would guess that dog had quite a personality. Must be a story behind “Shellcase”.
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Not a very good story... the wife wanted to call the dog "Casey" after a... ahem... Shi-Tzu, she had as a child... I refused to "officially" name my hunting dog Casey on the papers, so in the spirit of the field, went with "Shellcase"... but you can guess what it was for short.
 
Westward1 said:
The times I have ran into dogs like that in the field, their owners displayed similar behaviour. Usually quick to brag their dog is a bad ass. I feel sorry for their dogs and feel embarrassed for the owner.
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My male PP (now 5) is not aggressive but does not like other dogs in his space, more usually males. He wouldn't run up to your dog and attack it but if you dog got in his face (or butt) he'd turn on it and it's not from lack of proper socialization either. I have walked 1000s of kms with that dog (20 last weekend alone) and have met 100s of dogs, but he decided a couple yrs ago that he basically does not like dogs. I'm pretty sure that neutering would have helped, but then maybe not. I'm going to go back to the electronic collar this yr and see if I can get him out of this mode.

Dogs are animals. It's not always the owners fault for the way they behave.
 
The gun-shy ,problem I have been told is inherited and not in many cases learned.Have seen an entire lab litter gun shy and the breeder figured it was a problem from a stud he had used that did he not have enough info on. Have seen gun shy dogs sort of cured but they are never really over it and i'm sure never comfortable.
 
stubblejumper said:
Unfortunately, not all dogs are so friendly, we have run into a few that were quite aggressive.
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My DDs have been attacked many times by "friendly dogs" never by the same dog twice though, but more than once by the same hip and trendy cross breed. It usually starts with the other owner saying "it's ok, he/she is friendly" despite their dog's body language. I have pictures of my dogs playing with puppies, and adult regular and micro breeds that were properly socialized. The DDs have the power to defend themselves, and the intelligence to know when to use it.
 
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