Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
I see a few big hogs every year. The ones ive seen like to dwell underneath outbuildings and such.
What ever happened to Ontario groundhogs?
- Thread starter KRASHED
- Start date
Adrian J Hare
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NewLowell On. Can.
Coyotes and Groundhogs dont mix. When the population of Coyotes get high the groundhogs disapear...
I agree that coyotes will prey on groundhogs, but I believe they are not the main cause for the decline. Apparently a brain virus has been causing most of the decline in groundhog populations. Foxes & fishers will also prey on groundhogs.
George
George
Biggunners
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- MOSTLY LOSTED
In the 50s 60s and 70s they used chemicals for everything. This built up in birds of prey that continuously ate prey species that had been exposed to it. Fishers and coyotes did not exist in any numbers at this time in Ontario nor did possums and turkeys. The only real predator was the fox and they were hunted heavily all winter for their extremely valuable fur leading to a very small population in spring. This meant that groundhogs were free to raise their young in a virtually predator free environment until the fox pups were old enough to hunt on their own. Of course by that time everything had come of age, rabbits, mice, muskrats etc.. It was an ideal wildlife management scenario with the surplus being harvested off each year and population levels staying relatively the same.
Since then a lot has changed, chemicals are no longer used. Round up the most common herbicide has no lethal dose. Birds of prey are over populated. The fox is all but wiped by coyotes who are killing them not to reduce competition but as a food source. Biologists with the MNR don't have answers because they refuse to accept the idea that animals kill and eat other animals. To listen to the amount of biologists we have here that just a couple years ago didn't believe coyotes ate deer is sickening. Population boom and bust cycles are another such misconception in a properly managed environment these do not exist. Bust cycles are only a result of the prey base not being able to keep up with depredation. One only needs to turn to New Zealand to see this. New Zealand is a country with out predators. Many hunters in New Zealand shoot thirty deer a year every year. They kill millions of rabbits and possums as well. Every year for them is a boom year. Their populations don't crash out of the blue every ten or so years because of "population cycles" and why is this? Because they don't have uncontrollable amounts of predators.
Since then a lot has changed, chemicals are no longer used. Round up the most common herbicide has no lethal dose. Birds of prey are over populated. The fox is all but wiped by coyotes who are killing them not to reduce competition but as a food source. Biologists with the MNR don't have answers because they refuse to accept the idea that animals kill and eat other animals. To listen to the amount of biologists we have here that just a couple years ago didn't believe coyotes ate deer is sickening. Population boom and bust cycles are another such misconception in a properly managed environment these do not exist. Bust cycles are only a result of the prey base not being able to keep up with depredation. One only needs to turn to New Zealand to see this. New Zealand is a country with out predators. Many hunters in New Zealand shoot thirty deer a year every year. They kill millions of rabbits and possums as well. Every year for them is a boom year. Their populations don't crash out of the blue every ten or so years because of "population cycles" and why is this? Because they don't have uncontrollable amounts of predators.
Some years ago, my buddy and I would hunt the Marmora area, not far from Peterborough. Knock on farmer's door, introduce ourselves and ask permission. Some property owners wanted to see our rigs, most didn't want anything larger than 22-250, they would tell us where the cattle were, which fields to hunt and good to go! One farmer offered us $1.00 per tail for each dead hog! At the end of the day, we gave him 41 tails, and no we didn't take his money! We are still welcome on his property.
Mike
Mike
NZ ecology is in total crisis. Their avian population is disappearing as the introduced predators have established themselves. Please remember there were only birds in NZ upon Cook's discovery. They filled all the niches, no fur bearing types of any kind. They are currently broadcasting 10-80 from planes to try and control the predator levels. Huge controversy. You are partially correct with your pesticide argument. Herbicides however do not directly affect mammals but can cause duress through side effects. Insecticides in the organo chlorine(DDT) class are the truly insidious ones as they attack the nervous system of anything with one. They also have 30 year half lives. They are more rigidly controlled at present times. A herbicide's surfactant may cause problems but the toxicology of most herbicides are based on a plant's physiology which is radically different from something with a heart beat. I agree entirely with your apex predator theory and the buildup of chemicals in their system. Organo chlorines are fat soluable, so as a side note if you are concerned about toxins avoid the fat when you eat your catch.
I hunted for years in Ellwood Epps hometown area (Clinton On) about 40 years ago and there were hundreds of hogs--however--all that farmland up there was pasture land at that time and now is under heavy cultivation. Hence no more ground hogs. As a matter of interest I new Ellwood well and his excellent gunsmiths built me 2 beautiful custom rifles. His shop in Clinton was out of the past and a fun place to visit.
Do you remember or were you part of the Benmiller ground hog derby. When we talk about lots of ground hogs means setting up in one field on a high spot and stay in one spot for most of the day to do your shooting. I see more dead hogs on the shoulder of a controlled access highway than in all the fields around here. Back when we had lots of hogs we also had lots of jacks and no yotes. We got lots of yotes now.
I used to hunt ground hogs up in the Mount Forest (Ontario) area years ago on my grandma's farm. The one pasture area was a big basin. I would lie on the edge with my 22-250 and snipe them all day long. It was my version of whack-a mole. Shoot one and they all drop into their holes only to start reappearing a few minutes later. I don't get up that way too often anymore but I hear the population has seen quite a decline since then.
This is exactly the sort of groundhog shooting we had in the Tweed area. If you switched positions once or twice during the course of a day, it was usually just to get some different scenery. Maybe not as fast paced as prairie dog shoots today, but still plenty of action, lots of shooting, lots of fun. We used some heavy, ungainly guns, since we didn't need to carry them very far.
And, of course, we always had an AR or two along with us, just for fun...
This is exactly the sort of groundhog shooting we had in the Tweed area. If you switched positions once or twice during the course of a day, it was usually just to get some different scenery. Maybe not as fast paced as prairie dog shoots today, but still plenty of action, lots of shooting, lots of fun. We used some heavy, ungainly guns, since we didn't need to carry them very far.
And, of course, we always had an AR or two along with us, just for fun...
Exactly! Some good times for sure. Permission to hunt was easy to be had too because they were a nuisance.
So has anyone actually done an extensive study on what has happened to the groundhog? I feel like there's lots of contributing factors. I hunt a lot and I have never seen a groundhog on my hunting grounds which seems strange to me. My dad talked about shooting groundhogs as a kid like they were the most plentiful animal in Ontario.
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I see them all over London Ontario...prob see 60+ a summer and I am not really paying attention/looking for them BUT you can't exactly shoot them in the city
Add to this that I cannot go anywhere without seeing a tons of Red Tailed Hawks and coyotes everywhere (once outside the city for the later) its not a big surprise to me.
Add to this that I cannot go anywhere without seeing a tons of Red Tailed Hawks and coyotes everywhere (once outside the city for the later) its not a big surprise to me.
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