What feature in a milling machine is $

B

Black Jack

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Hey guys, I'm looking to get myself a milling machine for general purpose use. I wanted to get something in the price range of one like the busy bee b1977 model or something similar. I'm not in a hurry because I will mostly play with it more during the winter. Was also looking for used ones because I've seen comments like buy the biggest you can afford. I saw a few used ones bigger or same size as the BB model but what exactly is worth the money when buying a mill. Is it the size? the travel size of the table? Many used ones are from guys who have them in the basement. So for me it means more or less wear on the machine itself. I'm not sure what to look for to compare size---> to dollars or what to offer. Many are in the Toronto area so it will mean 5h away to get it also but it doesn't bother me if the price would match. Tks for any input to make a educated decision.

Pat
 
Get a used one that is either a Bridgeport or a clone made in Taiwan NOT CHINA. A DRO and a power feed are essential to me. The problem you will likely face is 3 phase power. I spent $1000 on a motor rewind and a phase converter to solve the issue so I suggest you find something suitable for your power availability.
 
Table travel and ridgity are the two main things. Not sure what a B1977 looks like as i don`t have a catalog handy. If it has the round tube that the head mounts on that is a weak point, it can shift if not tightened down real good. For light hobby work they are alright, just take smaller cuts. Takes longer to do a job but if your not doing work for pay it doesn`t matter. I use a large mill drill and it works fine just takes more time, i have cut a lot of key ways and you get creative in set ups. As for price i haven`t seen to many used ones out here, if you do guys think they are worth new price.
 
For gun work you will most likely be using tool of quarter inch or smaller, and despite this the bigger the better. I have a 40 year lob Taiwan made mill drill that weighs 450 pounds, has DRO and, one power feed -all installed by me, I have yet to find any job that needs the full travel on any of the axes, but occasionally I do wish for a knee type table. Be prepared to spend at least the same amount on tooling, vises, setup rigs, measuring instruments, etc., as you pay for the base tool. Same principle applies to lathes!

Dr Jim
 
The B1977 is what is (was) referred to as an RF30 or RF31 style mill.

They are a good place to start. Get the R8 taper version if you can, so tooling will interchange if/when you upgrade. Easier to sell if you get out of it, and less beating on your spindle bearings to remove when changing tools, compared to the MT-3 spindles.

Only good thing about the MT-3 spindles is that you may be able to use the tooling on the lathe, if it is the same size, and it's not too hard to make your own MT-3 taper spindle blanks, if you think an hour of your time is worth less than the $6 that busy bee charges for an adapter. You can make your own R8 taper stuff too, though, so it is kinda a minor point.

The Morse taper is a self locking taper, it will stick in the bore, esp if you tighten the drawbar. R8 is self releasing (in theory) though it may take a rap with a blunt object to pop it loose. Won't be the hit that a MT taper needs, though.

The mills like the Busy Bee one, make a great heavy duty drill press, if you get the space to use it as such after getting a larger mill.

Prices? Generally you get what you pay for, but not always. If you shop carefully, you will find companies selling the same mill for a bunch more, mostly because they can. In some cases you can get varying levels of fit and finish from the same company (the Co. selling the mill , that is) and then you have a comparable.

As an example, Grizzly tools sells several different levels of the same machines, built often in different factories. Better finishing, better bearings (sometimes), and better overall fit of the parts, with fewer sharp edges.

But Acklands or say, Thomas Skinner, will happily sell you the equivalent of the Busy Bee one for several thousand dollars more. You won't get several thousand dollars better.

Good machines to start out on. Much internet hay has been made about the inability to hold position when raising and lowering the head. Not really an issue as you will mostly be scribing a line and cutting to it, at least to get going.
Village press, the publishers of Home Shop Machinist magazine, have published a book that covers the adventures of a fellow doing what he needed to upgrade and improve a Mill-Drill. I'd say it was worth owning. Should be about $40 or so. Check their site and search the term "mill drill".

Buying new gives you the ability to take it back if it's broken, but otherwise, I'd rather save the money and deal with the issues if I have to.

Buying used can often give you a shortcut to a well equipped shop, if tooling comes with. A wooden box full of rusty and dull drill bits, is not "fully tooled", by any means, though it seems that some sellers think so. Educate yourself, bring a knowledgeable friend when looking at a used machine.

Cheers
Trev
 
All good info, tks a lot. I found a few I'll go take a look and see how it turns out. I'm willing to pay around 2k so, hoping to find one with tools coming with it that somebody doesn't need nomore. :)
 
Watch the Ottawa area Craigslist and Kijiji, as well as searching the surrounding area adverts.

Word of mouth travels fast too. If you can touch base with a Hobby Machining group in the Ottawa area (Pretty sure the Ottawa Live Steam club is still active) you may be able to hook up with someone that can put you onto a mill that is available. Good way to meet folks that share a similar interest, and that may be ale to help you through the tough problems of getting things to work the way you thought they would. :)

Cheers
Trev
 
PEI ROB said:
Get a used one that is either a Bridgeport or a clone made in Taiwan NOT CHINA. A DRO and a power feed are essential to me. The problem you will likely face is 3 phase power. I spent $1000 on a motor rewind and a phase converter to solve the issue so I suggest you find something suitable for your power availability.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why the motor re-wind? Just happened to need it, and nothing to do with the phase converter, right?
 
The style with the round column can be frustrating as you can't make big shifts and keep the tool in register if the column has to move.

Any machine tool of this sort is a near lifetime investment. For my money I'd suggest you strongly consider putting a little more funds into the budget and go for the CT054. The dovetail vertical ways provide you with a TRUE fully useable X,Y and Z axes of movement under total control. And in addtion the X, Y, Z plus tilting head provides a lot of flexibiity for cuts that are simply not possible on the round column machines.

Size wise it's big for doing small jobs. But if you do the odd bigger part that may or may not be related to guns you'll welcome the size.
 
Many industry used milling machine motors are 575V 3 phase. Most people do not have 3phase available never mind 575V 3 phase but can easily convert single phase to 3 phase. However a phase converter capable of converting to 575V with enough amperage to run a decent mill will be very expensive. A 3 phase motor can't be rewound to single phase but it can be rewound to 240V so one solution is to rewind the motor to 240V 3 phase and run a 2.2kW [3hp] phase converter from your single phase 240V source.
 
If you have a 3 phase issue, just go with a variable frequency drive...no muss ...no fuss...not a thousand bucks!!!!!!!!?????.. I wish all my machines were 3 phase...just my horizontal mill though..the rest sound like they are driven by chainsaw engines in comparison
 
Black Jack said:
Hey guys, I'm looking to get myself a milling machine for general purpose use. I wanted to get something in the price range of one like the busy bee b1977 model or something similar. I'm not in a hurry because I will mostly play with it more during the winter. Was also looking for used ones because I've seen comments like buy the biggest you can afford. I saw a few used ones bigger or same size as the BB model but what exactly is worth the money when buying a mill. Is it the size? the travel size of the table? Many used ones are from guys who have them in the basement. So for me it means more or less wear on the machine itself. I'm not sure what to look for to compare size---> to dollars or what to offer. Many are in the Toronto area so it will mean 5h away to get it also but it doesn't bother me if the price would match. Tks for any input to make a educated decision.

Pat
Click to expand...
Stay away from Chinese junk if you can. Lots of good old American iron kicking around. I bought a Clausing lathe in New Market 5 years ago. Stopped at Busy Bee in Barrie to get some tooling. Checked out their machines. The backlash on their lathes was more than mine...and mine was 30 - 35 years old at the time. And that was an 2 day trip. My horizontal mill was in St. Paul, Minnesota ...a 3 day drive. The time may be worth it. That's my 3 phase baby...very nice. Buy good tools and tooling ...they'll last a lifetime...in this day and age it's not big bucks. And what the hell does bringing it it into the basement have to do with it??
 
if your buying a used one get a good dial indicator with a Magnetic base set it on the table and pre load it on the head ov the mill and try to move it this will tell you the run out on the mill head then attach the indicator to the body of the mill were you can preload it on the table then try to move the table by hand (not by the feeds) this will show if there is runout on the table the more runout the less you want it because it shows play in the feed or head and that takes away fron accurate cuts
 
The Chinese "junk" isn't that bad if you go over it as though it were a used machine with unknown pedigree. The basics are there but often some cleaning of grit, adjusting dovetail keys or other stuff is needed to truly make the machine useable.

There is some great old used iron but one has to know what to look for in terms of damage or wear or they are not a good deal any longer. Lathes that were used for a lot of tool post grinding operations or simply a lot of sanding was done and where the bed wasn't protected from the grit can often be worn badly hollow in the primary use area. Such a machine is not much better than scrap since the cost of re-surfacing the bed can be up there. The key is to know what to check.
 
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