So im out shooting yesterday loaded 5 in the mag loaded the gun fired off 3 rounds and when i pulled the trigger on the 4th it fired and then the operating rod came back and detached itself from the bolt, the bolt then went forward and chambered the 5th round a quarter of the way but came out of the pathway it should normally travel slightly. Thats the best i can explain it any ways. I field stripped it and there doesnt appear to be any damage atleast not to my untrained eye. I put it all back together, everything went back together fine and i cycled the action a bunch of times by hand trying to recreate the problem but was unable to. Now i have a gun im scared to shoot. Anyone have this happen? any ideas what went wrong?
What happend to my norinco m14?
- Thread starter pklassen
- Start date
Mine does the exact same thing, what year of manufacture is yours? There is a few ideas thrown around like out of spec op-rod. I think you explained better than I did in regards to the malfunction in these rifles. Look forward to reading the responses.
Chris
Chris
You should read this thread:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457707&highlight=rod
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457707&highlight=rod
I believe it works like this...remove bolt, install op rod, tilt rifle back 30 degrees, op rod should slide back smoothly by itself...or something like that. If you use the search function or check the stickies you'll probably find the "official" answer.
Okay so the gun is a early production m305 i believe, it has a dummy flash suppresor. Just tried the tilt test and it passed easily. I did notice that the oprod guide has about a 1/8th of an inch of rotational play and the oprod if the gun is laying down horizontally you can move the oprod vertically about a 1/16 of a inch and as your doing it you can see the oprod guide rotating that 1/8th inch. With the spring and spring guide removed i tried sliding the oprod up and down in its track while doing all i can do to try and get it to come out its track and it wont so i dont think its the tab. the tab does come out easily out of the slot on the reciver its meant to come out of. Any thoughts?
there are some "causes" to this affect that you should be able to diagnose.
the tilt test is as follows
remove trigger and stock
remove oprod spring and guide rod
remove oprod and bolt
instal oprod
hold rifle horizontally in front of you without interfering with oprod and its travel
tilt rifle down at the muzzle to approx 30 degrees from horizontal. oprod should slide freely to it's forward most travel
next tilt receiver end down to approx 30 degrees below horizontal and the oprod should freely slide back to the rearmost of its travel
if your rifle PASSES this test , do the following
put action with oprod only in place on the bench, resting on the receiver legs
now slide the oprod through it's travel slowly and while doing so, apply alternating vertical up and down pressure to the oprod handle as it slides along. IF YOU HAVE a very minor amout of vertical movement you are probably ok ,..... if you have NOTICEABLE WIGGLE through the travel of the oprod.......simply and honestly put.... You need a new oprod
IF YOU FAIL the 30 dgree tilt test.... and the oprod is binding ..... look for causes
common causes are as follows
First check oprod guide and see if it is on center and if it has excess rotational play.... lotsa wiggle
Next and before dealing with a loose oprod guide, ENSURE barrel indexing is true,
IF the barrel is indexed true and the oprod guide is not the issue, next we look at the flange on the side of the receiver that the oprod slides on. Felt pen or Dykem blue this flange and slide oprod back and forth to see where the oprod is binding. alchohol will remove the pen or dykem blue.
now it gets tricky.... you may have a oprod that has a bend in it or twist..... not uncommon but hard to detect if you don't know what to look for.
so remedy..... well first, try a friends oprod if you have someone handy.
if barrel index is good and oprod guide is good..... and the friends oprod works fine..... it's a twisted or out of spec oprod.
if the friends oprod does the same thing..... i'd be looking at a binding surface on the receiver and treating it by polishing and deburring with ###fine instruments.
the tilt test is as follows
remove trigger and stock
remove oprod spring and guide rod
remove oprod and bolt
instal oprod
hold rifle horizontally in front of you without interfering with oprod and its travel
tilt rifle down at the muzzle to approx 30 degrees from horizontal. oprod should slide freely to it's forward most travel
next tilt receiver end down to approx 30 degrees below horizontal and the oprod should freely slide back to the rearmost of its travel
if your rifle PASSES this test , do the following
put action with oprod only in place on the bench, resting on the receiver legs
now slide the oprod through it's travel slowly and while doing so, apply alternating vertical up and down pressure to the oprod handle as it slides along. IF YOU HAVE a very minor amout of vertical movement you are probably ok ,..... if you have NOTICEABLE WIGGLE through the travel of the oprod.......simply and honestly put.... You need a new oprod
IF YOU FAIL the 30 dgree tilt test.... and the oprod is binding ..... look for causes
common causes are as follows
First check oprod guide and see if it is on center and if it has excess rotational play.... lotsa wiggle
Next and before dealing with a loose oprod guide, ENSURE barrel indexing is true,
IF the barrel is indexed true and the oprod guide is not the issue, next we look at the flange on the side of the receiver that the oprod slides on. Felt pen or Dykem blue this flange and slide oprod back and forth to see where the oprod is binding. alchohol will remove the pen or dykem blue.
now it gets tricky.... you may have a oprod that has a bend in it or twist..... not uncommon but hard to detect if you don't know what to look for.
so remedy..... well first, try a friends oprod if you have someone handy.
if barrel index is good and oprod guide is good..... and the friends oprod works fine..... it's a twisted or out of spec oprod.
if the friends oprod does the same thing..... i'd be looking at a binding surface on the receiver and treating it by polishing and deburring with ###fine instruments.
it looks to me like the guy who posted that threads oprod was not comeing out of the track but the bolt roller is separating from the oprod while the oprod is still securely in its track. With my rifle after being fired the oprod travels to the rear and the tab thats coming down the track reaches the slot where the oprod can be removed and instead of continuing to the rear passing the slot it jumps out causing the bolt roller to separate from the oprod. I hope that makes sense. That thread was helpful though because the m14 doc talks about peening the barrel where the oprod guide goes on and loctiting it on to eliminate play which my rifle seems to have to much of.
The rifle passed the tilt test perfectly but while holding the rifle horizontally infront of me with the bolt spring guide and spring romoved when i travel the oprod guide left and right there is a 1/16 of vertical travel but i believe this is because there seems to be alot of play in the oprod guide. Im thinking that if the oprod guide didnt have so much play then the oprod itself might not have that vertical movement. Or atleast not as much. Unfortunately i dont know anyone who has a m14 to try their oprod.
try conditioning the barrel where the oprod guide mounts.
remove pin (have a spare handy they like to break) slide oprod guide forward.... use a punch and make little lines from back to front, 1/16" apart around the barrels oprod guide location.
use a block of hardwood or similar and tap the oprod guide back over the now raised location. red loctite is optional.
drive in new pin
install oprod and tap oprod guide to align end of oprod with end of piston center to center.
done like dinner
remove pin (have a spare handy they like to break) slide oprod guide forward.... use a punch and make little lines from back to front, 1/16" apart around the barrels oprod guide location.
use a block of hardwood or similar and tap the oprod guide back over the now raised location. red loctite is optional.
drive in new pin
install oprod and tap oprod guide to align end of oprod with end of piston center to center.
done like dinner
try conditioning the barrel where the oprod guide mounts.
remove pin (have a spare handy they like to break) slide oprod guide forward.... use a punch and make little lines from back to front, 1/16" apart around the barrels oprod guide location.
use a block of hardwood or similar and tap the oprod guide back over the now raised location. red loctite is optional.
drive in new pin
install oprod and tap oprod guide to align end of oprod with end of piston center to center.
done like dinner
Just finished this procedure using a center punch and was a little skeptical that it would take out all the play because the oprod guide slid off its barrel location with only the force of gravity. VEry loose. After i was finished the procedure the guide took a lot of work to get back on, when i finally got it into position and the pin in there was absolutely no play what so ever left. It now sits on the barrel very snug. Just gotta get to the range this weekend and try it out. im nearly certain this should solve my problem because the oprod now has very little vertical movement in its track now but i will rip off a bunch of rounds and report whether or not it solved the problem.
oprod...... not oprod spring guide....... the latter could become disconnected in an unfilled usgi stock
the oprod itself would not be affected by a stock change unless that stock was rubbing ahead of the receiver on the bottom of the oprod. this would not cause the oprod to pop free of it's tab slot...... it would and can affect cycling however, most commonly this issue is found on chinese wood stocks or over indexed barrelled actions
a barrelled action that throws the oprod, free of receiver and allows the bolt to slip free of the roller pocket and be no longer "attached" to the oprod ..... is in need of repair..... it simply should not do this.
what happens is the oprod flies back and is under some kind of directional stress and when it gets to the receiver cutout for oprod tab..... the oprod jumps out of the track and the bolt slips free of the roller pocket. in some cases, the oprod on it's forward stroke, slips right back into the track.....
so something is out of whack.
could be barrel index is past 0 (top dead center)
could be bent or twisted oprod , probably from firing with over indexed barrel
could be loose or mislocated oprod guide
but we've been over all this
let us know how she shoots with the conditioned oprod guide pklassen
