What happened to the Gravel NR ACRs?

[F22_RaptoR]

Hmmm I wonder if if the gen2 lowers will fit the same uppers?

The only rifles getting those lowers are the Remington ACR's, not the bushmaster ones. So it wont matter because nobody will see the ACR 2's unless remington starts to see to others than Mil/LEO

 

[P0WERWAGON]

so who does gravel sell to? which shops to place an order with?

 

[RickR1100]

Poor comparison IMO.

1) The VZ isn't made in the U.S.
2) The VZ is a much simpler design
3) You did mention something about surplus parts...
4) The ACR has many more parts than the VZ that require high precision
5) The VZ 58 was developed over 50 years ago, antiquated design
6) Bushmaster (or I should really say Shrubmaster) needs to recoup R&D costs
7) Economy of scale and setup costs.

8) Bushmaster dropped the ball on this one, lol.

A better comparison would be a higher end AR or the XCR.

Here's waiting to see what happens with the Beretta ARX.

1) so f'ing what?!? Compete or die

2) VZ is NOT simpler than an ACR...have you even seriously looked at them?!? Or how much more complex machining is required for a VZ?!?

3) ACR should be comparable since so many AR-15 parts are used too, scale of economy benefiting the ACR, wiping out your point

4) i'll bet thats not true. Maybe VZ vs AR, but not an ACR

5) absolutely utterly irrelevant to the point about manufacturing costs. VZ in any shop, apples to apples, would cost at least 3 times more to make the receiver than that of an ACR.

6) WHAT R+D?!?! Magpul did the R&D!!! WTF did Bushmaster do?!? No seriously, explain yourself here...

7) ACR already benefits from economies of scale from using so many M-16/M-4/AR-15 parts and barrels and magazines...and an extruded receiver?!? C'mon, this'll be the easiest quickest return on investment we'll see


ACR's ARX's as comparison are poor, because they too use FAR cheaper manufacturing methods and materials than an old-school design like the VZ, FAL or Enfield. So when you get to compare prices of the ACR to that of an ARX, all you will know is how badly the "gotta have it" crowd is willing to pay...NOT what it costs to actually build one.

The since the 1980's, military "black rifles" have become cheaper and cheaper to manufacture, and the prices have gone up and up. The profit on such rifles must be insane these days, even with R&D. Even the R+D must be way cheaper: compare the M1 Garand, designed all on paper, compared to a modern SolidWorks CAD "do it all". Magpul designed this design in under 100 days.

 

[VLT79]

Kind of off topic in regards to the OP's question but for those arguing about the price...am I the only one to realize that any "black or green" rifle that made or makes the NR list is over priced compared to some other world markets???

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Kind of off topic in regards to the OP's question but for those arguing about the price...am I the only one to realize that any "black or green" rifle that made or makes the NR list is over priced compared to some other world markets???

Yes, usually 1.5 times the price of the American equivalent... One rifle that's actually a pretty good price and has the non-restricted status and uses AR15 mags is the Benelli MR1, under 2 grand for the version with the tele-stock, uses AR15 mags, ambi-mag release, reliable and (from what some members have reported) decently accurate.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

I fondled a MR1 and can't stand anything about it. Ergos suck. It feels like a tapco'd sks, but i guess it's pretty accurate.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

I fondled a MR1 and can't stand anything about it. Ergos suck. It feels like a tapco'd sks, but i guess it's pretty accurate.

I have a Benelli M4 so the feel of the MR1 is very close to it, I spose which is why I don't mind it (definitely with the tele-stock though, the fixed stock is wayyy too long). I'm not a big fan of the mag release though, not able to use your firing hand to drop the mag, you pretty much have to use your off-hand thumb to unlatch the mag.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

Yeah the mag release is way too far forward, and I didn't like the fixed stock

 

[VLT79]

Yes, usually 1.5 times the price of the American equivalent... One rifle that's actually a pretty good price and has the non-restricted status and uses AR15 mags is the Benelli MR1, under 2 grand for the version with the tele-stock, uses AR15 mags, ambi-mag release, reliable and (from what some members have reported) decently accurate.

The reason for the affordable price is because the MR1 is a hunting rifle, basically a scaled down R1, that was designed to look like a "black" rifle.

The Swiss Arms, XCR-L, XCR-M, ACR, AR-180b (discontinued) were all military/law enforcement oriented designs just like the M-16/AR-15 rifle. So why doesn't the AR platform cost 1.5 times more in Canada? Could it be some folks are taking advantage of the NR classification to make a few extra bucks??? I'd be willing to bet that if the AR platform was classified NR tomorrow we'd see a pretty steep rise in price as well!

 

[F22_RaptoR]

The reason for the affordable price is because the MR1 is a hunting rifle, basically a scaled down R1, that was designed to look like a "black" rifle.

The Swiss Arms, XCR-L, XCR-M, ACR, AR-180b (discontinued) were all military/law enforcement oriented designs just like the M-16/AR-15 rifle. So why doesn't the AR platform cost 1.5 times more in Canada? Could it be some folks are taking advantage of the NR classification to make a few extra bucks??? I'd be willing to bet that if the AR platform was classified NR tomorrow we'd see a pretty steep rise in price as well!

That's definitely a true point, a lot of people refer to it as the "non restricted tax".

The MR1 however was designed off of the Beretta RX4 which was designed as a mil/LEO rifle, with similar ergonomics to their shotguns (hence the same grip/stock on the benelli Nova Tactical with fixed or tele-stock). It's just not a very popular rifle, I'm sure it has its mark up compared to US markets as well. The R1 was designed on/after the RX4 as the "hunting" version of it, with the MR1 as a direct "civilian" version of the RX4.

Wolverine had a 12" version of the MR1 which looked ultra-slick (albeit restricted )

 

[VLT79]

The R1 was designed on/after the RX4 as the "hunting" version of it, with the MR1 as a direct "civilian" version of the RX4.

Really? I know the developement for the ARGO system dates back to the mid to late 90s for use in the M4. For some reason, I thought the R1 came first in 2003/04 and the RX4/MR1 later in 2005/06?