What happens to prohibited 12.6 guns after license holder passes?

Cameron SS said:
Under the simplified classification system all guns are prohibited because the clowns who wrote it dont understand basic sentence structure.

The Cons talk a good game but when the rubber hits the road they dont have much of a better clue about our gun laws than liberals do.
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The simplified classification system - anything that shoots a bullet is a gun.
A reminder, how a gun is designed does NOT suspend the morals and values of the person in possession and control of any gun.
Nor does badge (or being a government agent) protect the morals and values of the person who carries the gun and keeps them from acting in a criminal manner.
Bottom line, guns are inanimate and have no power over human morals and values.
Up until January first 1978 firearms were not regulated in Canada. The F.A.C. (Firearms Acquisition Certificate) did NOT keep guns out of the hands of criminals
The POL / PAL (Possession only license / Possession and Acquisition License) that replaced the F.A.C. as of December 1, 1998 does not keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
All of the firearms prohibitions put in place since 1978 have not kept guns out of the hands of criminals. The first 1/2 of all handguns were prohibited by C68(1995) giving us 12(6) prohibited handguns, the second half of handguns were prohibited in Oct 2023. Criminals are still getting handguns.
Semi automatic hunting and target rifles were prohibited May 1, 2020 with no effective change in the crime rate other than turning those who were in possession of these firearms legally on April 31, 2020 into criminals by using an OIC (Order in Council)

The gun license (PAL) coupled to Criminal Code of Canada Section 91 (Possession of a firearm is a criminal offense) and Criminal Code of Canada Section 117.11 (The ability to remove protection of the gun license for possession of guns without going to parliament ) is key to ending legal firearms possession in Canada.

The gun license is a barrier to taking possession of a firearm, no more, no less. The PAL is a gateway.
The sole purpose of the PAL (gun license) is to end possession of firearms in Canada

Every gun owner in Canada was made a criminal in September of 1995 when bill C68 amended the criminal code to make possession of a firearm a criminal code offense.
The gun license (PAL) is no more than a 5 year amnesty from CCC S 91 criminal charges and conviction.
Section 117.11 places burden of proof (produce a valid gun license or face conviction) on a CCC S 91 criminal charge.

Conviction under Criminal Code of Canada Section 91 results in a 5 year firearms possession prohibition and forfeiture of all firearms and ammunition to the crown, plus a criminal record.

"Gun owners are law abiding until they are not" Liberal Member of Parliament Pam Damoff in the House of Commons.
Gun owners are subject to criminal charges and criminal conviction when their PAL expires. Conviction means all firearms and ammunition are forfeit to the crown.
The May 1, 2020 OIC removed the protection of the gun license against conviction for possession of over 1500 named firearms

PROVE ME WRONG
Join Canada's National Firearms Association to help get non violent, non victim, administrative Firearms Act infractions out of the criminal code.

https://nfa.ca/

As to what happens to 12(6) prohibited firearms after the owner dies, They are currently all forfeit to the crown for destruction. 12(7) class is frozen as the legal means to transfer a firearm to another individual with a PAL has been terminated by OIC (Order in Council)

Bottom line when Bill C68(1995) was passed ownership of your tax paid, legally acquired firearms passed to the Pleasure and whim of the Privy council and prime minster
 
10x said:
As to what happens to 12(6) prohibited firearms after the owner dies, They are currently all forfeit to the crown for destruction.
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Frankly expected you of all people to know better.

You can still sell 12.6 - mostly to export businesses (can do it through an auction or direct) but that's really not a huge change as a large majority of 12.6 guns was being bought for export before the freeze already.
 
10x said:
It is a criminal code offense to fail to report a lost or stolen firearm to either the C.F.O. or the Police.
There are an incredible number of "Catch 22" opportunities for criminal charges for firearms act infractions with no victim.
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Why would they charge a deceased individual?
 
call2arms said:
Why would they charge a deceased individual?
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polskiogorki said:
He is talking about the people who are still alive claiming they lost them in a boating accident. That will not fly.
There are other options though.
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Thank you.
There is the export option that is extremely complicated and expensive for Norinco firearms and Lend Lease firearms that can not go into the USA.
My S8W Victory revolvers can not enter the USA either Nor can my Lend Lease semi auto rifles.
The folks I spoke to about export were very willing but were very expensive. And some guns could simply not be imported to the USA.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
He ought to read the title of the thread. It specifically asked about what happens after the owner passes.
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When the owner passes then it is up to the executor of the will to dispose of the firearms as per the terms of the will. If the 12(6) firearms and prohibited firearms are in a bequest to a person who is not of legal age to take possession of these firearms then the executor can hold them (but not use them) until that person becomes of legal age and then works to meet the terms of the will while the heir attempts to qualify or qualifies to take legal possession.

It has been my experience that handguns are sometimes extremely difficult for the executor to locate by executor and heirs. One of my friends had a fair number of 12(6) handguns, was a pawn shop owner and used second hand safes that he obtained when he bought out businesses. It took several weeks of locksmith time to open these safes as the combinations died with him. Cost was about $4500. We never did locate the majority of the 12(6) handguns and the Registrars office would NOT provide either registration certificates or an inventory list of the handguns tied to the gun license as the gun license had been "revoked" when the executor notified the C.F.O. of the death. We had no idea of how many or what he should have had.
I an aware of a widow who is executor of her husband's estates who has been dealing with disposal of the full auto and full auto converted prohibits for over 15 years. Getting US book value for these firearms is next to impossible. Finding a U.S. importer that will pay even 25% of book value is impossible. The only option is to donate these firearms to a licensed museum for a tax receipt so far.
 
10x said:
It has been my experience that handguns are sometimes extremely difficult for the executor to locate by executor and heirs. One of my friends had a fair number of 12(6) handguns, was a pawn shop owner and used second hand safes that he obtained when he bought out businesses. It took several weeks of locksmith time to open these safes as the combinations died with him. Cost was about $4500. We never did locate the majority of the 12(6) handguns and the Registrars office would NOT provide either registration certificates or an inventory list of the handguns tied to the gun license as the gun license had been "revoked" when the executor notified the C.F.O. of the death. We had no idea of how many or what he should have had.
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At which point the disposition of those prohibs are the CFC's problem.



10x said:
I an aware of a widow who is executor of her husband's estates who has been dealing with disposal of the full auto and full auto converted prohibits for over 15 years. Getting US book value for these firearms is next to impossible. Finding a U.S. importer that will pay even 25% of book value is impossible. The only option is to donate these firearms to a licensed museum for a tax receipt so far.
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US book value is certainly not indicative of the value elsewhere. The US market is warped by their laws.

No, you wouldn't be able to import FAs and converted FAs into the USA.

FA's and converted FAs can be sold to any licensed business or anyone with the correct prohibition class on their license. I am aware of several FA guns that were sold in the last 6 months or so. I really wanted a FA MP40 but couldn't justify the cost.
 
^ correct. US book value is inflated on FA because they can't get any more post 1986.

You can still export to Switzerland and some other European countries at _their_ book prices as well as sell in Canada - I've bought a few FA to enjoy here, most through auctions.
 
10x said:
It is a criminal code offense to fail to report a lost or stolen firearm to either the C.F.O. or the Police.
There are an incredible number of "Catch 22" opportunities for criminal charges for firearms act infractions with no victim.
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And yet 400,000 PALs expire every year and require renewal, more than 150,000 of them with RPAL, and 75,000 of those RPALs have registered firearms associated with them. Approximately 10% of those up for renewal will expire and are renewed late or are not renewed at all
and the courts and jails are not stuffed to the gills with hapless paper criminals or clueless widows.

Front line law enforcement doesnt enforce 98% of the firearms act, at least not proactively. Yes there are always charges that can be laid. But they dont. Usually because they dont know.

For the 1001st time. Dont talk to police.

What happens after the lawful owner does? Unlawful ownership. Thats what.

People can dispose of these unlawful firearms if they want to and many do. Also, many dont, and they never hear about it.

These are just facts. Not advice.

Another interesting historical fact that the most commonly successful way to get unfavourable legislation repealed is to dosobey it and encourage other ls to do the same.

Consequently, the most surefire way to ensure legislation survives is to obey it and constantly scaremonger others accordingly.

To each their own.
 
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Apologies. That was not clearly worded
I will edit.

Yes 1/5 of licenses expire every year. With a five year validity that is to be expected.

Approximately 10% of those are not renewed before they expire
 
Cameron SS said:
Another interesting historical fact is that the most commonly successful way to get unfavorable legislation repealed is to disobey it and encourage others to do the same.
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Better known as civil disobedience. A truly successful, time honored way to make corrupt laws go away.

Cameron SS said:
Consequently, the most surefire way to ensure legislation survives is to obey it and constantly scaremonger others accordingly.
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Yes. Foolish people obey, therefore giving it legitimacy and it will NEVER go away.
 
Cameron SS said:
Apologies. That was not clearly worded
I will edit.

Yes 1/5 of licenses expire every year. With a five year validity that is to be expected.

Approximately 10% of those are not renewed before they expire
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Ahh ... as this thread is about people dying, I thought you meant that 1/5 of PALs expired and were not renewed annually.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
1/5 of PAL licenses expire annually? Somehow I doubt that.
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The PAL has a 5 year term and has been mandatory since December 1, 1998.
Statistically within a 5 year term 100% of PAL licenses expire.
I got my last F.A.C In 1995, my first PAL 5 years later.
So the poster is correct, Statistically 1 in 5 PALs will expire this year.

"Gun owners are law abiding until they are not" Liberal Member of Parliament Pam Damoff in the House of Commons.
What this statement means is that gun owners morph into criminals the second their gun license expires.
There is a 6 month amnesty but that amnesty does NOT allow legal possession of the firearm - the firearm must be in "safe storage"

The Police harvest guns incidental to other interactions with a gun owner. The most common method is when they attend a residence.
One of the first questions asked is "Are there any guns in the home?" If "yes" then the visit morphs into a Firearms act infraction investigation as the next question is "May we see how they are stored and may we see the guns?"
The third question is "May we see your gun license?" If the gun license has expired it turns into criminal Firearms act investigation, the guns get seized, and CCC Section 91 charges are laid. If it is a domestic dispute - that becomes secondary.

The gun license is a barrier to taking possession of a firearm, no more, no less. The PAL is a gateway.
The sole purpose of the PAL (gun license) is to end possession of firearms in Canada

Every gun owner in Canada was made a criminal in September of 1995 when bill C68 amended the criminal code to make possession of a firearm a criminal code offense.
The gun license (PAL) is no more than a 5 year amnesty from CCC S 91 criminal charges and conviction.
Section 117.11 places burden of proof (produce a valid gun license or face conviction) on a CCC S 91 criminal charge.

Conviction under Criminal Code of Canada Section 91 results in a 5 year firearms possession prohibition and forfeiture of all firearms and ammunition to the crown, plus a criminal record.


Gun owners are subject to criminal charges and criminal conviction when their PAL expires. Conviction means all firearms and ammunition are forfeit to the crown.
The May 1, 2020 OIC removed the protection of the gun license against conviction for possession of over 1500 named firearms
 
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Cameron SS said:
For the 1001st time. Dont talk to police.... the most commonly successful way to get unfavourable legislation repealed is to disobey it and encourage others to do the same. Consequently, the most surefire way to ensure legislation survives is to obey it and constantly scaremonger others accordingly. To each their own.
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Our guardians in uniform are always right. A-L-W-A-Y-S. We, the private citizens, are always wrong. A-L-W-A-Y-S.

You are talking to your guardians in uniform? Beware. Your guardians in uniform lust after your guns - easy guns, free guns.

Beware.
 
The Govt turned thousands of POL into PAL's. Did the POL holders need to renue every 5 years/ Now they do ,so a lot don't this?
 
Snowy Owl said:
Our guardians in uniform are always right. A-L-W-A-Y-S. We, the private citizens, are always wrong. A-L-W-A-Y-S.

You are talking to your guardians in uniform? Beware. Your guardians in uniform lust after your guns - easy guns, free guns.

Beware.
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I, for one, have no idea what you're typing about.

All Cameron said is when corrupt law is disregarded by the many, the corrupt law will be repealed.
That is truth. Civil disobedience was instrumental, for example, in the repeal of alcohol prohibition 90 years ago when the law was widely ignored.

My own grandfather, I found out after he died, had an alcohol still that supplemented his meager farm income during the depression.

The fact that police are happy to enforce anything their masters tell them to....so what?
 
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