What have I got here??

[csmith99]

Hey folks, looking for some help here.

My Dad recently passed and when cleaning things up, I came across this hammer gun. It looks like the firing pins have been removed, so I know for a fact it's not functional, but the rest looks original.

There are some stamps inside the break (photos don't show them well, but there aren't any serial numbers on the weapon. The only "real" identifying mark is the star on the butt stock.

If any of you know who makes this and maybe how old it is, I'd appreciate it. Better yet, if you can direct me to an antique firearms expert in the Toronto area who would know.

Thanks,

 

[mooncoon]

My guess would be a belgian hammer shotgun from the 1880 - early 1900 period. If you take the barrels off and look on the bottom of them at the breach end, you should find either a crown over a cross perhaps with letters or an oval with ELG in it. the crown over cross (X) is british and the elg is belgian. The birmingham gun would be more valuable than its belgian equivalent.
Also recognize that even with the firing pins removed, it is not a legal antique and must be registered unless it is a peculiar guage. Alternately you could bush the chambers to 14 guage greener police shell and it would become exempt from registration as a prescribed antique.

cheers mooncoon

 

[csmith99]

My guess would be a belgian hammer shotgun from the 1880 - early 1900 period. If you take the barrels off and look on the bottom of them at the breach end, you should find either a crown over a cross perhaps with letters or an oval with ELG in it. the crown over cross (X) is british and the elg is belgian. The birmingham gun would be more valuable than its belgian equivalent.
Also recognize that even with the firing pins removed, it is not a legal antique and must be registered unless it is a peculiar guage. Alternately you could bush the chambers to 14 guage greener police shell and it would become exempt from registration as a prescribed antique.

cheers mooncoon

Thanks for the advice. How would I take the barrels off? This gun is really rusted and I'd hate to start something I can't finish.

Also, how would I register a gun without a serial number (or definate manufacturer)? And to make it an "official" antique without destroying it, what do you mean by "bush the chambers"? Is this something that can be done by a layman at home?

Thanks

 

[mooncoon]

Broadly speaking there are 4 kinds of forend releases. Prior to about 1870 ish, there was a barrel key or cross pin that you pulled out similar to a muzzle loader. Post that time, you will find either a finger pull release on the bottom of the forend, that you pull down or a push button on the end of the forend, that you push in. Finally on some economy grade shotguns the forend is held on by spring tension and you just pull down on the end with your finger, and in all cases the forend more or less swings down pivoting on the frame.
Bushing the chamber means making up (on a metal lathe) a cylinder which is slightly smaller than the outside dimensions of the chamber and on the inside is chambered for (in this case) the greener police shell or for a straight 14 guage shell or 24 guage also. It can be secured in with high temperature loktite. While in place the gun becomes chambered for a guage other than the named guages which require registration and since your gun is most probably made before 1898 it would qualify for an antique. The high temperature loktite means that the bushing cannot easily and certainly not quickly removed.
If you wish to register the gun, I would expect the firearms center to issue you a reference number which you would stamp into the gun or perhaps a sticky which you stick on the gun.

cheers mooncoon

 

[csmith99]

Broadly speaking there are 4 kinds of forend releases. Prior to about 1870 ish, there was a barrel key or cross pin that you pulled out similar to a muzzle loader. Post that time, you will find either a finger pull release on the bottom of the forend, that you pull down or a push button on the end of the forend, that you push in. Finally on some economy grade shotguns the forend is held on by spring tension and you just pull down on the end with your finger, and in all cases the forend more or less swings down pivoting on the frame.

WOW, Ok, I'll give this a try.

Bushing the chamber means making up (on a metal lathe) a cylinder which is slightly smaller than the outside dimensions of the chamber and on the inside is chambered for (in this case) the greener police shell or for a straight 14 guage shell or 24 guage also. It can be secured in with high temperature loktite. While in place the gun becomes chambered for a guage other than the named guages which require registration and since your gun is most probably made before 1898 it would qualify for an antique. The high temperature loktite means that the bushing cannot easily and certainly not quickly removed.
If you wish to register the gun, I would expect the firearms center to issue you a reference number which you would stamp into the gun or perhaps a sticky which you stick on the gun.

cheers mooncoon

Ummmm Can I just glue in a set of metal snap caps? I don't have a lathe.

Once I get all the above figured out, I'll call my local CFO or the CFC. In the meantime, it'll stay locked up in my gun safe.

Thanks again for all the great info.

 

[mooncoon]

Snap caps would not work because essentially you would be blocking the barrels of a modern gun without permanently destroying all the rest of it. Recognize that to meet the deactivation standards, you not only have to block the barrels but weld up the firing pin holes and triggers and all sorts of similar such things and for all intents and purposes have to destroy the gun. Ironically since the gun is pre 1898, you can render it incapable of chambering the shells for which it was originally made (12 guage I am presuming) and give it a chamber for a non commercial shotshell such as the 14 guage greener police shell which is a 12 guage base then stepped down to 14 guage about 3/4" up from the bottom and it now becomes an antique in the eyes of the law and as prescribed in cc84 1 b and SOR 98-464 As such you are supposed to put a trigger lock on it or otherwise make it safe but you do not have to weld it up. If you want something to put on the wall, I believe you can meet the intent of the law by removing the mainsprings or the firing pins as well as the chambering for a non commercial guage. Either act would duplicate the intent of a trigger lock which is to in theory make the gun inopperable without the key to the lock.

cheers mooncoon