What is an H&R M14 worth?

[Claven2]

they came from israel dude.
I'm curious to know how you know that the current wolverine IDF kits have "30 or more years of use" ?
The parts on my 2 were pretty much no different than any other 12-3 I've rendered to parts and like those IDF kits, a great many 12-3 rifles rendered to parts.... had parts that I deemed "not serviceable" for building an accurized match rifle.
information is great if it's accurate though.

now "some" 12-3 M14 rifles might be worth more as some rifles got imported that were in the NM configuration as far as having reamed flash hiders and NM sights. To a collector, one of those might be worth a bit more. Kinda like the TRW craze that saw 12-3 rifles containing mostly trw components selling at a higher price point as parts kits. I've paid 1200 for one pristine example of such a rifle but that is an exception to the normal 650 to 950 I typically paid for rendering these rifles to parts. I haven't bought a 12-3 for parts in 3 years now but I can only see the price going down or being equivalent to wolverine's surplus IDF kits.

I'm not trying to debate you on the source, I honestly don't know if they were all Israeli or not, but they certainly were not electropencil like this batch and were not in DMR configuration.

I had some that looked barely issued and some that had seen significant use.

 

[OkayShooter]

When I bought my M1A in 2001, that ended up being a miss registered 12.3 class USGI M14. I paid 700$. I sold it for parts for 1400$

 

[Claven2]

When I bought my M1A in 2001, that ended up being a miss registered 12.3 class USGI M14. I paid 700$. I sold it for parts for 1400$

Yes, but I think the point here is that recent bulk imports of IDF DMR M14 kit's has affected the price. And I agree it has, the only question is by how much.

I would also say it's generally more profitable to part kits out.

 

[1-trident-1]

H&R provided more m14 s to the government than any other manufacturer.

 

[45ACPKING]

for the record.... I wasn't trying to debate anyone...... I post what I "know" to be truth.

the spread of misinformation has been a big problem when it comes to these rifles and I do my best to not be one of those guys.

 

[Claven2]

H&R provided more m14 s to the government than any other manufacturer.

I'm curious if anyone actually "values" M14 parts in Canada based on rarity of manufacture?

In my opition, TRW op rods are worth a small premium because they are forged one-piece rods (incidentally, so are Norinco rods). The other original manufacturers (SA, H&W and WRA) all made the min two pieces and welded the tubes to the arms.

Literally, I consider every other parts on an M14 to be equivalent if USGI. I would never pay a premium for, say, a TRW bolt or trigger housing over one from another maker in the same condition.

Buy hey, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

 

[Claven2]

for the record.... I wasn't trying to debate anyone...... I post what I "know" to be truth.

the spread of misinformation has been a big problem when it comes to these rifles and I do my best to not be one of those guys.

Totally understand. My point is that the early imports, no matter where they came from, were often cosmetically better than the recent imports and in my owm personal and limited experience, the parts reject rate was lower.

But as we all know, every kit - and every part within it - needs to be evaluated on its own merit when setting pries or selecting good parts for a build.

This is not unique to the M14 - heck ,you hear identical discussions among AK builders in the states, and that's hardly a precision-made rifle.

 

[cigar_man]

Interesting set of opinions all around.

Now for my 2 cents worth and a little bit of history of the M-14, M1A, M-305 or what ever you have here in Canada.

Ahhh,,,,,Smoke-em if you Got-em!

Growing up in the the 60's and 70's is my impressionable years in firearms.

Military Surplus was alway's where my nose was.

A few of my timings might be a bit off, memory of exact dates was not as important at the time.

The first M-14 (M1A) that I ran across for sale in Canada was built by Springfield Armory back in the early 70's.

I wanted one real bad, but they where expensive and hard to get.

F-FWD into around 1984-85 when the converted auto's hit the open market.

They stared out at $100.00 almost a predecessor to the prices of the early Garand's in the 90's.

I was told by the original importer that these were all IDF surplus.

H&R, Springfield and Winchester M-14s by the boat load.

The $100 buckers seemed to be completely functional, but there was no finish left anywhere.

$175.00, you had the best

During this era, I don't think Springfield Armory sold many of their product in Canada.

1985-ish along comes Norinco M305's or what ever they called them back then.

These babies where dam crude compared to my original M-14.

Along comes the converted auto ban (early 90's??) and the M-14 comes to a crashing HALT!!!!

Norinco and or Polytech started to sell bare receivers on the market in the early 90's also.

In around the same era, I forget the date, but no more Norinco into the U.S. of A.

These Norinco - Polytech receivers on the market started the first tear downs of our original M-14's for parts kits.

F-Fwd to 1995-ish, Camp Perry and the Civilian Marksmenship Program-CMP (My personal hey-day's with the M-14 - M1A)

Springfield Armory and Fulton Armory are the "Big Player's" now along with the CMP.

Surplus parts, stocks, parts kits and just about anything M-14 was as cheap as borscht.

At the same time, AR-15's are just being introduced as match rifles for civilians at Camp Perry.

The M-14 and Garand was still the big name in town at Camp Perry.

The best thing at this time, you could bring any parts back to Canada you wanted, just pay the taxes.

Ok, here is where things get interesting, late 90's.

At the same time, Ar-15 style of rifle is taking over at Camp Perry and the M-14 and Garand's are starting to take a back seat.

New names are being introduced into the USA for M-14 receivers and there is a hard following with the Old Boyz Club for the M-14 style of rifle.

Canada,,,,, well that's a different story.

Norinco M305 is the new King of the Castle in Canada for your M-14 style rifle - as cheap as borscht.

Original C/A M-14's are still being torn down as the supply of original parts is slowwwwwwwwly drying up.

New USA made barrels and parts are introduced onto the scene, but there is nothing like OEM made parts.

Now into the 2000's and today's scenery.

Lots of interest here on GunNutz and beyond!!!!!

A new breed of M-14 Boyz!!

M-14 OEM parts are g-d@m expensive now here in Canada, let alone the USA and trying to get the parts here is difficult to say the least.

Ohhhhh, it can be done, but a pain in the arse.

Oddly enough, my buddy has a stash of parts, a mile long from the hey-days, but he's greedy, won't give them up until the grave!!!!!!!

Here is where we are at today in 2017-18 and Wolverine brings in M-14 kits.

I could never say "Thank You" enough, they have restored my faith in the M-14 - M305 Gods.

As far as prices go, well lets just say, you have to pay for the best.

Do I consider early 12.3,, M-14 better quality?

The short answer is, No.

All the parts come down to condition, condition, condition as far as prices go.

Early 12.3's as I said, where good and bad as far as condition.

I consider my M-305 receiver - M14 heavy barrel parts set (Wolverine's) to be as good as anything that I ever had in the early hey-day.

Maybe I lucked out on my kit, but it's superb.

The only thing that sets mine apart as the best is that it's a OEM heavy barrelled kit.

In past times, OEM heavy barrels where dam near Unobtanium and all that was available was aftermarket.

BTW, Im no newbie to this platform.

I was switching barrels and kits for years, along with the Military Armourers at Camp Perry, my buddies.

I knew them all at one time.

The M-14 - Garand Armourers that I knew, will be all retired from the military by now.

Im sure I have missed a few points, yes, just trying to keep a real long story as short as possible.

I consider the M-14 platform better than anything else, well maybe on par with the M1 Garand, hard choice, believe me.

Keep up the great work.

It is nice to know, I still have M-14 friends almost 50 years later after my first taste of one here in Canada.

 

[machman]

/l\ "I consider my M-305 receiver - M14 heavy barrel parts set (Wolverine's) to be as good as anything that I ever had in the early hey-day.
Maybe I lucked out on my kit, but it's superb.
The only thing that sets mine apart as the best is that it's a OEM heavy barrelled kit.
In past times, OEM heavy barrels where dam near Unobtanium and all that was available was aftermarket."

When you say "heavy barrel", you probably know the IDF heavy barrel kits were all "medium barrels" right? Maybe Wolverine should have called them "heavier barrels", lol.

 

[45ACPKING]

Interesting set of opinions all around.

Now for my 2 cents worth and a little bit of history of the M-14, M1A, M-305 or what ever you have here in Canada.

Ahhh,,,,,Smoke-em if you Got-em!

Growing up in the the 60's and 70's is my impressionable years in firearms.

Military Surplus was alway's where my nose was.

A few of my timings might be a bit off, memory of exact dates was not as important at the time.

The first M-14 (M1A) that I ran across for sale in Canada was built by Springfield Armory back in the early 70's.

I wanted one real bad, but they where expensive and hard to get.

F-FWD into around 1984-85 when the converted auto's hit the open market.

They stared out at $100.00 almost a predecessor to the prices of the early Garand's in the 90's.

I was told by the original importer that these were all IDF surplus.

H&R, Springfield and Winchester M-14s by the boat load.

The $100 buckers seemed to be completely functional, but there was no finish left anywhere.

$175.00, you had the best

During this era, I don't think Springfield Armory sold many of their product in Canada.

1985-ish along comes Norinco M305's or what ever they called them back then.

These babies where dam crude compared to my original M-14.

Along comes the converted auto ban (early 90's??) and the M-14 comes to a crashing HALT!!!!

Norinco and or Polytech started to sell bare receivers on the market in the early 90's also.

In around the same era, I forget the date, but no more Norinco into the U.S. of A.

These Norinco - Polytech receivers on the market started the first tear downs of our original M-14's for parts kits.

F-Fwd to 1995-ish, Camp Perry and the Civilian Marksmenship Program-CMP (My personal hey-day's with the M-14 - M1A)

Springfield Armory and Fulton Armory are the "Big Player's" now along with the CMP.

Surplus parts, stocks, parts kits and just about anything M-14 was as cheap as borscht.

At the same time, AR-15's are just being introduced as match rifles for civilians at Camp Perry.

The M-14 and Garand was still the big name in town at Camp Perry.

The best thing at this time, you could bring any parts back to Canada you wanted, just pay the taxes.

Ok, here is where things get interesting, late 90's.

At the same time, Ar-15 style of rifle is taking over at Camp Perry and the M-14 and Garand's are starting to take a back seat.

New names are being introduced into the USA for M-14 receivers and there is a hard following with the Old Boyz Club for the M-14 style of rifle.

Canada,,,,, well that's a different story.

Norinco M305 is the new King of the Castle in Canada for your M-14 style rifle - as cheap as borscht.

Original C/A M-14's are still being torn down as the supply of original parts is slowwwwwwwwly drying up.

New USA made barrels and parts are introduced onto the scene, but there is nothing like OEM made parts.

Now into the 2000's and today's scenery.

Lots of interest here on GunNutz and beyond!!!!!

A new breed of M-14 Boyz!!

M-14 OEM parts are g-d@m expensive now here in Canada, let alone the USA and trying to get the parts here is difficult to say the least.

Ohhhhh, it can be done, but a pain in the arse.

Oddly enough, my buddy has a stash of parts, a mile long from the hey-days, but he's greedy, won't give them up until the grave!!!!!!!

Here is where we are at today in 2017-18 and Wolverine brings in M-14 kits.

I could never say "Thank You" enough, they have restored my faith in the M-14 - M305 Gods.

As far as prices go, well lets just say, you have to pay for the best.

Do I consider early 12.3,, M-14 better quality?

The short answer is, No.

All the parts come down to condition, condition, condition as far as prices go.

Early 12.3's as I said, where good and bad as far as condition.

I consider my M-305 receiver - M14 heavy barrel parts set (Wolverine's) to be as good as anything that I ever had in the early hey-day.

Maybe I lucked out on my kit, but it's superb.

The only thing that sets mine apart as the best is that it's a OEM heavy barrelled kit.

In past times, OEM heavy barrels where dam near Unobtanium and all that was available was aftermarket.

BTW, Im no newbie to this platform.

I was switching barrels and kits for years, along with the Military Armourers at Camp Perry, my buddies.

I knew them all at one time.

The M-14 - Garand Armourers that I knew, will be all retired from the military by now.

Im sure I have missed a few points, yes, just trying to keep a real long story as short as possible.

I consider the M-14 platform better than anything else, well maybe on par with the M1 Garand, hard choice, believe me.

Keep up the great work.

It is nice to know, I still have M-14 friends almost 50 years later after my first taste of one here in Canada.

nailed it, well done, thanx for taking the time.
I remember the family pack of israeli import m14 rifles offered by lever arms back in those days. 950.00 for 1 of each manufacturer (trw,win,hra,sa) or you could select your 4 , still one of each from the back for 1250.00. I got in on the last couple years of these being availlable and should have kept the many rifles I bought from old man lever back in the day.

One of the last 12-3 M14 rifles I purchased , a couple years ago, was TRW tear down in pristine condition with negligable throat/muzzle erosion on a Saco Lowell barrel (SAK). It contained a TRW bolt, oprod trigger housing and wore hooded aperture NM sights with an NM reamed flash hider. The stock was also a mint condition USGI fiberglass stock with no modifications and in near as new condition.
The entire rifle looked to be built , carefully used a few times and stored well for all these years. I paid 1200. That seller is a member here so he can speak up if he wants too.
The SAK barrel to me is like a holy grail item in my collection so added value, as did the trw components and the original USGI NM sites.
H&R and Winchester were and always will be the lesser value parts when it comes to these rifles unless the community as a whole has moved on from that type of usgi parts grading.

 

[Claven2]

TRW used some of the early CNC machines just as they were being adopted in industry, so some people put a lot of stock in that.

My personal opinion though is that every M14 component had to pass gauging and if it did, it doesn't matter how advanced the mill or lathe was.

The exception is the op rods, TRW ones should theoretically be stronger.

According to Lee Emerson, who is a good source of info, h&r rods, made in 2 pieces and welded together, had the highest failure rate. Jerry kunhaussen says the same thing, but both men claim the failure rate to be so low as to not be a practical concern for anyone at all.

TRW stuff is worth more for the same reason Sako mosins are worth more. Mystique, not rarity and not higher serviceability.

 

[1-trident-1]

the good news is we now have modern manufacturers such as Bula , LRB amongst others producing quality parts and rifles equal to or better than USGI. as for cost, in the early seventies, I bought a new small Ford from the dealer for $3000. so the $80 parts kit today would be $800, speaking in generalities.

 

[cigar_man]

When you say "heavy barrel", you probably know the IDF heavy barrel kits were all "medium barrels" right? Maybe Wolverine should have called them "heavier barrels", lol.

I knew someone would bring that up, Yes they are medium, but anything other than an ordinary GI profile, I just call heavy.

 

[45ACPKING]

saco lowell and TRW were using the most advanced gauging methods of the day. They achieved dimensional tolerances far superior to any of there counterparts in the contractual manufacture of M14 rifles for the US government.
This is the reason why SAK and TRW components were and have been the most sought after parts by gun builders. Like TRW, Saco lowell (sak) was also able to manufacture barrels and one piece oprods with dimensional tolerances that exceeded all others in the industry at the time. Not simply because of tooling but because thru new at the time advanced air gauge technology used by the space agencies up until that point, these two companies where able to provide superior parts. This is fact and history , not made up "mystique".

"The internet" may have built up the TRW Mystique to get higher value for used components ..... but there was a reason folks desired those parts before the "internet cool factor" came around.
NOS TRW and SAK components will always fetch the highest value , used components, like ALL others , value is dependent on condition and serviceable dimension of course.