What is highest FPS self powered air pistol.
- Thread starter BushcraftBill
- Start date
Shooting with oil will also cook your main seal and breech seal. Not good, unless you really like tearing down and replacing seals. And noise. There are many other modifications one can implement to improve performance without crossing the line. A guy calling himself 'Chevota' in various forums (sadly, especially on the Yellow forums, which are pretty much dead after being acquired by Tapatalk) has excellent information on such things. From shimming and sleeving mainsprings to adjusting porting and improving seals, the guy is a serious resource for spring-piston enthusiasts. I'd go so far as to suggest his information (on TheHighRoad, CAF, various other remaining forums) provides a better path for the self-sufficient airgunner than anything to do with the 1377/1322 club. I bought a brass piston for my brother's 1377 and did the flat top valve mod, porting etc, and after a bunch of hours and lots of frustration put into that project managed to get him 470fps with 7gr pellets... after 6 pumps. Maybe the 1322 is better in the quest for power, but it seems unlikely to offer much more.
A solidly built .22" springer, properly optimized, is going to deliver the almost-500fps with 11.9gr RWS wadcutters, which is about as close to the legal line as one can go. Won't get there with a Webley of any model, but the above-referenced Diana magnum can get there without too much trouble. Personally, if I wanted a cheap backpack kit for small game, this would be the go-to pistol:
https://dlairgun.com/collections/new/products/bandit-22-495fps-dia-ap-052?variant=30229205057596
That and a used FX pump or if you trust them a cheap Chinese pump, or a buddy bottle, offers something capable and accurate for under $400 or so.
A solidly built .22" springer, properly optimized, is going to deliver the almost-500fps with 11.9gr RWS wadcutters, which is about as close to the legal line as one can go. Won't get there with a Webley of any model, but the above-referenced Diana magnum can get there without too much trouble. Personally, if I wanted a cheap backpack kit for small game, this would be the go-to pistol:
https://dlairgun.com/collections/new/products/bandit-22-495fps-dia-ap-052?variant=30229205057596
That and a used FX pump or if you trust them a cheap Chinese pump, or a buddy bottle, offers something capable and accurate for under $400 or so.
If you must go air - and I would not if alone in the woods, but good enough to hunt squirrels/rabbits for diet - remember that the HW45 and/or Beeman P1s have two power settings, half #### and full ####. If I recall, at half #### all three possible calibres (.177/.20/.22) are well below the 499fps legal limit, so good to go for carry in the woods.
These guns are not cheap, but I opine they are the finest air pistols available on the market and something you can keep for a long time (not to mention great for trigger control practice in the living room ha, despite the 'reverse recoil' effect). Mine came from D&L, highly recommended.
These guns are not cheap, but I opine they are the finest air pistols available on the market and something you can keep for a long time (not to mention great for trigger control practice in the living room ha, despite the 'reverse recoil' effect). Mine came from D&L, highly recommended.
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Dieseling is only possible with spring piston airguns. And the claim that dieseling doubles the MV is an overstatement.
Readers should be aware there is an increase in power, but it won't be anything close to twice the MV without dieseling. Some sources say it will increase the MV by 20 - 30%. (See, for example, h t t p s://www.survivalkit.com/blog/does-dieseling-increase-air-gun-performance/). In any event, dieseling is not desirable in springers as it will contribute to damaging the airgun, especially the seals. Dieseling is not consistent and it takes away from airgun accuracy. While youtubers may encourage the practice, serious airgunners avoid deliberate dieseling.
All true. Seems to me the primary 'use' for dieselling is to make a very loud noise which might impress the ignorant regarding the appearance of airgun power. A loud bang and smoke. Wow. But the second shot will be slower, the third slower than that. Of course one could put a drop of oil into the mix for every shot, but then measuring the exact amount of oil for each is very difficult. And as with any other airgun type, significant variation in velocity from shot to shot means your point of impact changes radically. Good luck hitting that rabbit when you may be as much as a couple of inches high or low.
I have 1322’s, a 1377, 2240 and a mark I. All but the Mark I have been modified for the best performance but the <500 fps really takes away from these being used as a serious game getter. Fine for garden pests but a .22lr would be my choice. Something like this which has already been suggested.
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Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Why not a 22lr rifle like a savage rascal?
Weighs hardly more than a largebreak barrel pellet pistol.
Also easier to hit something with
After you heavily file/re-shape the firing pin to penetrate the .22 rims, and recess the firing pin head so it doesn't contact the face of the chamber and stop the pin from contacting the rim....and then welding a blob of metal onto the tail of the pin (and file that to shape) to compensate for the material removed from the face and actual pin into shape.....and then getting a piece of 3/16" steel rod and cut a piece off and place in the rear of the bolt under the spring cup to compress the firing pin spring more so it has enough snap to actually set off the shells reliably.
Then I fully agree! lol I had to do all of this myself to get the Savage Rascal to fire each time every time but now it's a hoot!
Didn't know this is a more common issue,
Just Googled it and it is indeed a more common thing.
I guess I'll deal with it once it becomes an issue.
I am on my second one (sold the first since my daughter wasn't using it much, then bought another one because it was a good deal) and have not experienced ignition issues in both (yet).
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
No you need a average. Do you shoot 1 round over the chrony when developing a load, and say this load shoots 593 FPS? Based on 1 shot? No.
I give a definite edge to a 22 rimfire. Works at -40, good power and accuracy, if you are going to carry pellets, you had might as well carry shells. I have an old Deutche Werke 22 that was my Dads. Its killed lots of rabbits and gophers, and it weighs less than even the lightest of air rifles. Easy to operate, even in the extreme cold. Not as compact as a pistol, but light as one.
Savage Rascal is lighter than that, even after you take off all the rope and such.
How is it that a law is broken? If an air rifle shooter has a PAL his air rifle can shoot over 500 fps. The sub-500 fps in airgun laws applies to airguns (rifles and pistols) that don't require a PAL because it's not classified as a firearm (unless it's used in the commission of a crime). Of course if your air pistol has a MV over 500 fps, it is classified as a firearm and accordingly requires an RPAL -- because it's a handgun.
More than just an RPAL, also the restrictions. (Has to be registered, ATT, range use only, special locking requirements)
You can’t use a +500 air pistol the same way you use a -500 air pistol, just because you have an RPAL.
Now, to the point of the post you quoted, no, it’s not illegal. It’s a malfunction that some folks try to reproduce.
Well, for a rifle that weighed 3lbs without any “upgrades” the 15.4oz I added in rope and such is a small price to pay for a tight package with some handy items. There is a Victorinox hiker, Gerber Dime, Fenix EO5 and spare battery, 22 rounds, ferro rod, a chunk of fire cord, about 25’ of regular paracord and an allen wrench and torx to take down the rifle and adjust the red dot and the red dot and fore end I fashioned. The Rascal, according to Savage weighs 3.5lbs. I guess I am on the chunky side with those extra 8oz
I picked up a Chiappa little badger in 22/410 and love it but it’s still a little big.
My M6 Scout 22/410 is perfect for a survival rifle but I really don’t like the large glove trigger but the shell holder in the stock really makes it an ideal piece
My M6 Scout 22/410 is perfect for a survival rifle but I really don’t like the large glove trigger but the shell holder in the stock really makes it an ideal piece
Yes, you've correctly identified what's necessary to use any restricted firearm, something those of us familiar with handgun restrictions know well.
Regarding my post, I guess for some readers I ought to have added more clarity. No law is broken simply because the first pellet shot may have gone over 500 fps. Why? Unless it's chronographed, no one would know the exact MV of that first shot. More importantly and significantly, however, it's done with a non-PAL airgun. The manufacturers of such airguns, whether pistol or rifle, have satisfied the authorities that they are indeed sub-500 fps and therefore can be sold to buyers without requiring a PAL. When someone buys a non-PAL airgun he has the reasonable expectation that it should function legally as it should -- that is, within the parameters of the law.
On the other hand, if a shooter with an air pistol who is not following RPAL requirements has the misfortune and questionable judgement to invite someone from the firearms office to witness a chronographed first shot that exceeded 500 fps, then perhaps he may be in temporary and technical violation of the law. All this of course is premised on the assumption that all airguns diesel with the first shot. Not all do. More significantly, the only air pistol that could diesel is a spring piston air pistol. There are fewer of them available than other kinds. In any case, should someone have a springer air pistol that inadvertently diesels with the first shot, he still has a reasonable expectation for his non-PAL airgun to function within the parameters of the law -- just as it was designed and sold.
It's unnecessarily alarmist to suggest to airgun shooters that they are in violation of the law if their springer happens to diesel on its first shot through no fault of their own. A sub-500 fps airgun is designed and sold to function in such a way that a shooter doesn't need a PAL for either such an air rifle or an air pistol.
I didn't back read all the posts...sorry.
Just to clarify.
You could own a air pistol that does have a muzzle velocity over 500fps and you do not need a RPAL.
As long as the total muzzle energy is not greater than 5.7 joules.
The pistol has to be over both 500fps and over 5.7 FPE to be classified as a "Firearm"
Only then will it fall under the Canada Firearms Act.
Hope that helps...
RCMP Specific types of firearms
Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code
These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). Air guns need to exceed both thresholds to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.
Just to clarify.
You could own a air pistol that does have a muzzle velocity over 500fps and you do not need a RPAL.
As long as the total muzzle energy is not greater than 5.7 joules.
The pistol has to be over both 500fps and over 5.7 FPE to be classified as a "Firearm"
Only then will it fall under the Canada Firearms Act.
Hope that helps...
RCMP Specific types of firearms
Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code
These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). Air guns need to exceed both thresholds to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.
from what I have read on airgun forums, the devil is in the details.
the pellet weight has a say in the velocity.
nowadays there may be 22 pellets that shoot slightly over 500fps and exceed the jules too.
the RCMP says they take the manufacturer velocity as it is in an unmodified airgun
if it is visibly modified or they have a reason to check it thoroughly, their lab may find a different velocity
but that's not an issue in BC where hunting with any kind of gun under 12" is no go
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13.5gr pellets at 500fps produce 8.60joules
14.5gr -> 9.24joules
as such, the declared velocity is the only thing keeping your unmodified airpistol legaly not a firearm
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