What is "long range" - when do you need a scope?

W

woogs

New member
EE Expired
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Ottawa
Hey everyone

While I'm waiting (and waiting, and waiting, and waiting ....) for the mail to deliver my license, I'm mulling over which gun club in the area to get a membership with. There's a lot of factors to consider, and I'm having trouble coming up with the answer.

So first off, firearms I think I'd like to own and fire:
A Ross rifle, or at least a Lee Enfield
A semi-auto centrefire with cheaper ammo - a Norinco M-14 or an SKS? Something with a rail system so I can play Barbie with accessories
A semi-auto handgun of some stripe (likely 9x19mm)
A .22LR rifle of some sort (probably my starting rifle?)

Clubs I'm thinking of joining:
NCRRA (at Connaught). From a 900m range down to a pistol range.
RA Centre. Indoor pistol range, only .22LR rifles allowed
EOHC. 200m rifle range down to several pistol ranges. Not sure about calibre restrictions.

So (clearly) joining the RA Centre's club would make it exceptionally difficult to fire off .303 rounds. But joining the RA Centre itself wouldn't be such a bad choice, I'd love to get curling again this coming winter. Would it really be that bad to be limited to just .22LR for a rifle choice, but pretty much pick of the litter for handguns?

The NCRRA has access to that huge 900m range, but only at a couple set times during the week (actually, I think that's true for all their access to Connaught). I'm not sure what their whole setup is like. I'm also unsure if I'd ever want/need to use that huge range. Is a scope + bipod setup mandatory to hit a target at that range? Would the rifles I'm looking at make any sense at all for that distance? Would joining the NCRRA for the super-cool 900m range be like getting a ski hill membership for the double black diamond hill I never use because it scares the crap out of me?

The EOHC has the 100m and 200m ranges for rifle firing. What's firing like at those ranges? Is it a firing while standing up with iron sights deal, or would I be lying down with optics of some sort? The EOHC appeals, but it's a lot further out than the other two ranges - so driving time and fuel consumption come into play. Also, the "outdoor" bit makes things difficult. In beautiful weather, I know I'd rather be out on my motorcycle, as opposed to driving to the range.



OK, that was way too many questions for one post. The real question I need answered is this one then:
What's the difference between a 200m range and a 900m range? And 700m isn't a good answer :p
 
The choice of which range to choose should consider some of the following issues: is the range templated for the rifles you want to shoot, will the range allow the type of shooting you wish to participate in, how many hours a week is the range open to the public, when the range is open to the public, will you have reasonable access to the range on busy days, is the range within a reasonable distance of where you live, how much are the fees, are what do those fees buy you.

To your primary question, 700 yards might not be a good answer, but it is the answer. Despite what the drop tables and ballistic tables tell you and despite how you sight in your rifle to hit at a known distance, you have to shoot at the specific distance to know what a particular load will do at that distance. You can't shoot 300 yards on a 200 yard range so you won't know for sure what your trajectory or what your group size will be at 300 yards if your maximum shooting distance is 200 yards. If the maximum range is 1000 yards, shooting at 300 is no problem, and you can work up to longer ranges if you are bitten by the long range bug.

Good luck in your quest.
 
The M14 has piles of problems at 900m. wind, round going transonic. wind. stock shape. me shooting it, and wind. The sights come after these. It is still fun at 500m, but past there, it is not a rifle to learn on.

I don't know the EOHC range, or RA center, so I can not comment, but Connaught is a nice place to play.

No matter what you buy, or where you join, you will likely fall into either a shooter 1st, collector second, or the other way around. If you are shooting, especially at distance, or positionally, you will probably find you don't want a rail nothing. If you want to have fun with stuff that goes on rails, or collector pieces, the 200m range may be more your liking.
 
carbonrod said:
The M14 has piles of problems at 900m. wind, round going transonic. wind. stock shape. me shooting it, and wind. The sights come after these. It is still fun at 500m, but past there, it is not a rifle to learn on.

I don't know the EOHC range, or RA center, so I can not comment, but Connaught is a nice place to play.

No matter what you buy, or where you join, you will likely fall into either a shooter 1st, collector second, or the other way around. If you are shooting, especially at distance, or positionally, you will probably find you don't want a rail nothing. If you want to have fun with stuff that goes on rails, or collector pieces, the 200m range may be more your liking.
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks for the info! I still have a lot to consider between the three clubs, but the 900m range will be less of a factor in my choice now, considering my current plans.

Granted my plans are going way past a single year's membership at this point. Could I really go wrong if I just bite the bullet, pick a club and go with it for a year?
 
"...the difference between..." Those are the longest distances. Long range shooting(900 meters/yards) is something you should work up to. There are a great number of variables that will just discourage a new shooter, if you jump in at more than 200. The sights are just one.
 
I believe the NCRRA still has a group that meets on a weekly basis to shoot old vintage service rifles like the Lee Enfields and M14's at distances of 300m and less. You don't need to mount a scope for that.
 
sunray said:
"...the difference between..." Those are the longest distances. Long range shooting(900 meters/yards) is something you should work up to. There are a great number of variables that will just discourage a new shooter, if you jump in at more than 200. The sights are just one.
Click to expand...

OK, cool! I was worried that I'd feel like I was stuck in the shallow end of the swimming pool or something by using a rifle at a shorter range. I'm now aware that's a frankly silly concern :)
 
Could I really go wrong if I just bite the bullet, pick a club and go with it for a year?
Click to expand...

The short answer is YES.

All ranges will give you a chance to inspect the ground's... visit the ones you are interested in and see what they can offer you, you will notice some ranges may have a coverd rifle range with no room for off-hand/standing/prone shooting and others may have certain "questionable" range policys that restrict your shooting experiance.

The NCRRA has access to that huge 900m range, but only at a couple set times during the week (actually, I think that's true for all their access to Connaught). I'm not sure what their whole setup is like. I'm also unsure if I'd ever want/need to use that huge range. Is a scope + bipod setup mandatory to hit a target at that range?
Click to expand...

Optics are getting to be a must these day's... alot of new rifles dont come with iron sights instead they pre drill and tap for a scope base... depending on your eye's you might find you need a optic... some people are very very good with iron sights and my school of thought is all shooters should be proficent with both "just incase".

Save yourself some grief and buy a good set of shooting bag's to start out with, they work on any rifle or handgun and even if you put a bipod on your rifles you will still have a bag for under the butt of the gun, most range bag's are quickly gobbled up under some fudd's 300-08 super ultra short magnum (akley improved of course) so he can pretend he's picking the eye out of a charging grizz at 200m when he's actually shooting a frizbee size group at 50m.... like i said, save yourself the grief and buy a couple of your own bag's. :D

good luck.
 
There are plenty of guys at the NCRRA that will assist you if you plan to get into long range shooting. Some of the best long range shooters in Canada shoot there. With a properly set up target rifle/ F class gun hitting the target at 900 isn't a problem. Getting them all in the middle might be, but that's where the fun begins.
The NCRRA doesn't have much on their web page as far as what all the different types of shooting there is, for this go to the ORA web page at www.ontariorifleassociation.org
 
Hotwheels81 said:
The short answer is YES.
Optics are getting to be a must these day's... alot of new rifles dont come with iron sights instead they pre drill and tap for a scope base... depending on your eye's you might find you need a optic... some people are very very good with iron sights and my school of thought is all shooters should be proficent with both "just incase".

Save yourself some grief and buy a good set of shooting bag's to start out with, they work on any rifle or handgun and even if you put a bipod on your rifles you will still have a bag for under the butt of the gun, most range bag's are quickly gobbled up under some fudd's 300-08 super ultra short magnum (akley improved of course) so he can pretend he's picking the eye out of a charging grizz at 200m when he's actually shooting a frizbee size group at 50m.... like i said, save yourself the grief and buy a couple of your own bag's. :D

good luck.
Click to expand...


Colour me a confused newbie, but what's a shooting bag and what do you use it for? I'm getting the impression it's not just a bag for carrying firearms.
 
maynard said:
There are plenty of guys at the NCRRA that will assist you if you plan to get into long range shooting. Some of the best long range shooters in Canada shoot there. With a properly set up target rifle/ F class gun hitting the target at 900 isn't a problem. Getting them all in the middle might be, but that's where the fun begins.
The NCRRA doesn't have much on their web page as far as what all the different types of shooting there is, for this go to the ORA web page at www.ontariorifleassociation.org
Click to expand...

I didn't even know we had provincial associations. Thanks for that link, it had a lot of great information in it that was really useful.

I hadn't realized that the precision rifle guys actually worked in spotter/sniper teams for competitions like that! What does the spotter do in those competitions - I've got this "who's on first" comedy routine going through my head where there's a spotter, a sniper and only one target up.
 
The shooter/spotter role is changed for each relay. Both end up shooting the same course of fire and acting as the spotter for each match. At some matches the shooters already have a partner, but if you don't there will surely be someone else there that doesn't have a partner either. So don't think you need a partner to attend a match.

The ORA and DCRA have been around since 1868. Annual Prize Meetings (annual matches) have been held every year with the exception of the years of the 2 world wars. Both the ORA and DCRA web sites have a page with a short history of the associations. A cool read if you are interested in the history of Canadian competitive shooting.
 
chichichichi said:
Have you considered the St i t sville Rifle Range?
Click to expand...

Hadn't considered it because I didn't even know it existed! Those guys need to invest a nickel or two into advertising or just some word of mouth.

I have no idea what the club or range facilities are like though, I can't find any information about them. Are they indoor/outdoor? Big on competitions? When are they open? What are the membership fees like? No clue.
 
woogs said:
Hadn't considered it because I didn't even know it existed! Those guys need to invest a nickel or two into advertising or just some word of mouth.

I have no idea what the club or range facilities are like though, I can't find any information about them. Are they indoor/outdoor? Big on competitions? When are they open? What are the membership fees like? No clue.
Click to expand...

I am currently in similiar boat as you. I do not have a club yet still trying to figure out which one meets my needs the best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom