What is my Pistol chambered for? Belgian S&W #3 clone...Pic's

MiltonBradly

MiltonBradly

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Hey all,

I recently purchased my first Antique pistol from a member on the EE... I gather it is a Belgian copy of a S&W #3 DA/SA revolver in .450CF/.450 Adams. I'm trying to figure out what the best Cartridge case to use to reload for it might be. The PO successfully used cut down .45 colt cases and I have acquired some to test with but I'm wondering if the guns chambers would be better suited to another case?

I made a quick wax cast of a chamber and the specs are as follows...

1.144" long.
~.490" at base of the cylinder.
~.485" at approximately .145" depth in from the base of the cylinder (base of the extractor star.
~.466" at the face of the cylinder.

I pushed a .452" 200g cast lead bullet for .45 colt through and measured .451" on the grooves and .442" on the lands of the 4 groove barrel. The thought of trimming the cylinder a bit and using .45 acp cases with moon clips is appealing but I'm not sure I want to go that way yet. I have just finished reworking/rebuilding to correct few mechanical faults and I'm itching to make some smoke... :D

...The prerequisite fashion show:...

SW3RS.jpg


SW3LS.jpg


SW3cylinder.jpg


SW3bore.jpg


SW3stamp.jpg


I gather the Crown over ELG Stamp indicates the Black powder proof. I gather the Star over P is an inspection stamp from Delcommune Adolphe between 1952 and 1960 and it appears on the cylinder and right side of the frame just back from the barrel pivot. The "14" stamp I'm at a loss for... My guess is a serial/batch number perhaps as the frame also has a 14 stamp on the left side of the lower grip area and the barrel has it on just above the pivot tabs.

If anyone has any additional info I'd love to know about it!

Thanks
MB
 
Don't shave the rear of the cylinder for clips. There is some leeway for case length, I would use the longest case that fits (check depth in all 6 chambers before crimping a bullet in).
 
rgbai said:
The elg with a crown above it also means it's made in Belgium sometime after 1893
Click to expand...

yes,and lack of the crown over R that was introduced in 1894 for all rifled barrels would indicate 1893/94 as year of production.
the star over P is an inspectors mark,can be any letter.Used from 1877-present.
this is a good reference for Belgian proof marks:
Code: 
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html
 
fiscus said:
Don't shave the rear of the cylinder for clips. There is some leeway for case length, I would use the longest case that fits (check depth in all 6 chambers before crimping a bullet in).
Click to expand...

There is not enough clearance for a .45acp case exposing enough of the groove to fit a moon clip. I'm thinking I might make a new extractor star that is thinner than the original and try to make some matching moon clips that would then fit in the extra space.

MB
 
Had to look it up, but trimmed to length 455 Webley cases could also be used. Seems to be some Hornady brass floating around the shows here in Ontario. Ancaster maybe a good place to look tomorrow?
 
BrotherRockeye said:
FYI it's a copy of a S&W First Model Double Action in .450 Adams.
The barrel address is even correct save for the last date.
If you don't like the .45Colt cases maybe try .45 Autorim
Click to expand...

I guess I should pay attention more... You did tell me it was a first model copy :redface: after surfing all over the net for pic's and info I thought the third model was the only sa/da model...

Did you find that spent cases would slip off the extractor and get caught under it if not inverted when unloading? I think auto rim cases have a smaller rim diameter and would extract poorly. I'm off to the Ancaster military show tomorrow so hopefully I can brows some antique cartridges and find some options. The .45 colt cases will work but with the large chamber diameter at the back of the cylinder it would seem that something else could fit in there and .450 Adams base diameter is a hair smaller than .45 colt from what net info I can find...
 
Old .45 colt chambers were dimensioned same as that, to work better when dirty etc. The sammi spec for the diameter of the rear of the chamber of 45 colt is .486" +/- .004" at a position .200" from the recoil shield. Modern solid head .45 colt, .455 and 45 schofield cases I've measured all have the same base diameter as each other. 45 schofield has a larger diameter rim than the 45 colt, and 455 is the biggest but the rim is thinner.
 
The schofield sounds like it might be good to try... It's nice it being a .45, there are so many options available to work with.

Whatever the case the .45 colt cases cut down are an option I'm glad to have as brass is readily available preloaded with cast lead for CAS. My first batch of cases were plugged with 250g hollow base lead straight from the factory :D

MB
 
Well, I had some good luck at the Ancaster show and was able to try out a few cases. It looks like the winner is .455 colt. The base diameter seems a hair larger than the .45 colt and fits the cylinder quite nicely. I find that .455 Webly is a little too tight at the neck for comfort.

The .455 colt rim is wider but thinner and seems to stay on the extractor nicely with loaded cartridges. I'll have to pull some bullets and see how well they extract empty.

MB
 
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