What is poor accuracy in a hunting rifle?

Gatehouse said:
Another way to look at it is "how far from your POA is your POI?"

A few years ago we were having a discussion on the issues of handgun hunting. One of the issues brought up by Foxer was that handguns were too inaccurate to be used for hunting.

I recall going out and shooting a 6 shot group at 50 yards. I'm not a great handgun shooter, so the group was about 6" when measured traditionally. But all the bullets landed within 3" from POA whether they were left, right, up or down. The kill zone on a deer is larger than 6" in diameter!

Foxer said "That's a 6" group, not accurate enough for hunting"

I said "Any of those shots will kill a deer at 50 yards"

So you can look at it from a bench rest accuracy point of view or look at it as common sense. If your rifle puts all the bullets within 3" either side of POA at 300 yards, it's a 2MOA shooter, but it will also still kill the deer.
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A typical rifle shooter has his POI 3 inches away from his POA on purpose.
 
This group (one on the right) was shot from a rifle that would do around .75 at 100 yds and 1.5" is not good enough? Funny.

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tjhaile said:
How many archers can place all their arrows in a 6" group at 50 yards? I suspect that there are very few that can do so, yet nobody argues that a bow is unsuitable for hunting large game.
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how many archers can get two shots off on an animal?

I agree fully- shot placement is important, but really it's only important once. You're not likely to get a second shot off on an animal.
 
captonion said:
I have an Ithaca LSA 65 25-06 that will take the center out of the target every time on a cold barrel...Awsome accurate for ONE shot, but won't print a tight group, no matter what recipe I mix up for it...I'm talkin 3''+ groups...It is fully free floated, and glass bedded..I equate this to its rather light barrel...I suppose I could take a half hour or better to print a nice tight group, but who really does that, and why?

Would I take this rifle hunting for shots beyond 200yds? Of course I would, and have...Weather it groups sub MOA or not, I do know where the first bullet it going...
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Nothing wrong with a one shot group, I have a 257 ackley that shoots the first one perfect every time same with my 250 savage. FS
 
chuck nelson said:
This group (one on the right) was shot from a rifle that would do around .75 at 100 yds and 1.5" is not good enough? Funny.

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That's fantastic shooting right there,maybe not by CGN standards :rolleyes: but awesome in my book.

I shot a group like that @ 600 once.
I went to post the photo here on CGN...but I woke up before I could submit reply:(
 
Me, I must have low expectations because this is the way I see it. Mostly because I'm pretty much a crap shot.

0-1 MOA: Target rifle
1-3: Marksman rifle
3-5: Practical rifle
5-7: Plinker
7+: Affix bayonets

Granted, this scale of mine also takes into account the shooter, not just the gun. I don't see much reason why, for hunting a bull moose at about 150meters, 3 MOA would be "too inaccurate". Shot placement is vital.

But I don't have any practical experience, so don't listen to me.
 
Better a competent marksman with a mediocre rifle than a poor marksman with an excellent rifle. What practical benefit can there be in having a sub MOA rifle if you intend to shoot off-hand at a 12" vital zone on a live target? This brings to mind measuring with a micrometer when you intend to cut with an axe. While an accurate rifle is desirable for any gun enthusiast, MOA is a level of accuracy that cannot be exploited under typical big game hunting conditions where shots are taken from field positions. As the range increases, the importance of accuracy increases . . . a little. But accuracy doesn't take the place of the reliable functioning of your rifle, the terminal performance of your bullet, or the field of view of your scope. Shooting a 4 minute rifle does not make you a 4 minute marksman; but a 4 minute marksman can't intentionally place his bullet within a half inch of his intended point of aim, so in his hands a MOA rifle is no better or worse than a 4 minute rifle. By the way, a 4 minute marksman is pretty good. By definition, his bullet always hits within 2 minutes of his point of aim on a large target, with no discernible aiming point, in miserable weather, at a hastily estimated range, from field positions, under tight though open ended time constraint.

Having said that, knowing that your rifle is "accurate enough" is a great confidence builder. If that rifle always puts the first shot on the point of aim, and if the point of impact doesn't shift with the change in seasons, it makes a hunter confident that his rifle will do its part. If the load that is used in that rifle never fails to produce a quick humane kill, that makes a hunter confident. Confidence is the cornerstone of success. But demanding MOA accuracy from a rifle that only needs to put one or two rounds on a large target over normal hunting ranges, choosing a bullet based for its ability to shoot bug holes rather than to expand and penetrate in a predictable manner, and choosing a scope for its magnification rather than a field of view to allow you to see the entire target, suggests a lack of experience and confidence.
 
ALLS London said:
how many archers can get two shots off on an animal?

I agree fully- shot placement is important, but really it's only important once. You're not likely to get a second shot off on an animal.
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Let me rephrase that. How many archers can hit a 6" circle on demand at 50 yards?

It stands to reason that a group (the larger the number of shots, the better) under a given set of conditions will tell you what to expect in terms of how far any one shot might stray from the point of aim.
 
Minute of fist. If you can consistently shoot a group at the distance you are hunting, that you can cover with your closed fist, you can be comfortable that you can hit what you are aiming at.

Of course, we would all like one ragged hole from a 5 round group at max distance but for some guns, ammo, and shooter, combinations this is not going to happen.

I personally want much better than MOF from myself but it should get the job done.
 
My general rule is 1.5 MOA is fine to hunt big game with, but I know for a fact that a 3 MOA rifle will fill the freezer just fine out to 300 yards, which covers about 98% of most hunter's shots on game.
 
I don't think I own anything centerfire that is over 1 MOA for 3 shots as that is my minimum standard with a scope. It's what ever you are comfortable with.
 
Virtually any rifle is capable of "hunting" accuracy depending on the game and the conditions. the more critical ability "for deer-sized game" is at what range and shooting conditions can you keep all of your shots on a 10" paper plate--that is how accurate your rifle needs to be.
 
If I can get a 2 inch group out of a gun, that is good enough for hunting in the areas i hunt. It may not look pretty, but it will work out to any distance that I will likely shoot an animal. I don't live in the prairies, so there is little likelyhood that I will get a shot at a beast that is 500 yards away. I often strive to get much better accuracy than that, however if that was the best i could get, I would go out and hunt with it, and be satisfied!
 
What your rifle will shoot off a bench means sweet f*&k all in the real world.

This is not so complicated as everyone is making it seem.

Typical kill zone on large game animals is around 8 inches.

Put up some 8 inch targets at various distances, and start shooting using typical hunting/field offhand positions.

If you can put all your shots into that target in various shooting positions you are good to go, if not either you need to practice more.

Your range is likely to be limited by your skill, not your gun!
 
mlehtovaara said:
What your rifle will shoot off a bench means sweet f*&k all in the real world.

Typical kill zone on large game animals is around 8 inches. QUOTE]

What game animals are you shooting?? HaidaGwaii [Queen Charlotte Island] deer? ;) :D

A decent muley will have a 12 x 9" kill zone, and a moose or elk close to 18" square. Hardly need moa for most hunting distances.
But it sure is nice to have an accurate rifle, since it closes up the window for error somewhat.
I fully agree that field position shooting is very important.
We use big paper plates 10 - 12" in diameter to shoot at from field positions.
Regards, Eagleye
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I want my rifles to shoot well both from the bench and the field. The field shooting is me, the bench shooting is the rifle.

I feel better shooting hunting rifles that are MOA or a little better from a bench because I know all I have to worry about is me.

Rifles that can't do that don't stick around for long.
 
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