I honestly just don't care. Guns are all made of the same material, metal and wood. The name on them doesn't mean a godd#mn thing to me. Does it go bang when i pull the trigger..yes...good enough..carry on. I'm not a picky guy, and i am not easily sold on hype.
What is so great about Mauser rifles to make used ones so $$$?
- Thread starter cath8r
- Start date
I honestly just don't care. Guns are all made of the same material, metal and wood. The name on them doesn't mean a godd#mn thing to me. Does it go bang when i pull the trigger..yes...good enough..carry on. I'm not a picky guy, and i am not easily sold on hype.
Mauser can be like double rifles.
Double rifles can span a $500 Baikal hunk-o-junk to a $30,000 custom-made work of art with hand engraving and every detail tailored to the body shape of the person who commissions it.
Mausers span a beater chopped sporter rifle to a custom-made example from Holland and Holland. If you can't understand that, then I'm not going to explain further.
why do guys buy Ferraris when a Fiat 500 will get you there... they are both Italian cars, right?
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
It's not hype. When a rifle is hand-fitted and finished to exacting standards they are significantly different than something that is slapped together on an assembly line. Yes both will go bang when you pull the trigger, the same as a used Lada will get you groceries the same as a Mercedes. But to fail to recognize the difference in quality doesn't make you altruistic, it makes you either willingly or accidentally ignorant. There is nothing wrong with not caring, it's the not recognizing that frustrates people.
well i guess we will agree to disagree then. I think it is all hype, and markup. I have the same opinion about a lot of stuff cars and trucks, knives, shoes etc. But i do respect that you have a right to your opinion and if part of that opinion is putting me in the "ignorant" column...im ok with that too.
It's one thing to be uninformed. It's another to be ignorant.
But it's a whole 'nother level to be ignorant and defiantly proud of it. Some people are destined to go through life satisfied with adequate. Sure a Timex will tell time just as good as a Rolex. Thunderbird will get you as drunk as Opus One. Some people were just meant to take the bus and whose world view is firmly defined in the context of mediocrity.
Others know better when they see it, appreciate why it is so and work to obtain it.
Actually, no, it's not all about hype.
Some facts:
-A precision cut-rifled barrel will outshoot a mass-produced button-rifled barrel. The former costs more than the latter.
-A highly polished (think labour here) and blued piece of metal will rust less readily than a bead-blasted and blued matte finished piece of metal.
-A good quality walnut stock with no sapwood and not knots will change less with humidity and temperature variability than a poorer piece of wood.
-A hand-insetted good quality stock will typically never crack under recoil. A machine-inletted stock will often crack eventually.
-A poorly fitted low-end rifle is more likely to jam than a better fitted higher end rifle. Maybe you don't care, but guys facing dangerous game do.
-Cast or MIM parts will break before a forged and machined (more expensive) part will.
-Maybe you don't like aesthetics, but hand engraving is expensive since it's laborious.
I could go on...
If a cheap gun meets all your needs, great! That does not mean it will meet everyone else's as well.
There is no evidence to support cut-rifled barrels as being more accurate as compared to button rifled.
Stainless will rust less than CM and blueing.
Composite stocks are more stable than wood.
Don't see many Mauser actions in precision competition. Top 4 (more or less) Defiance, Surgeon, Accuracy International, Remington 700.
Modern Military rifles are not Mauser CRF actions....soldiers face very dangerous scenarios.
I could go on but you get the idea, time to rethink your so called FACTS.
Mausers are without a doubt a very good design but by no means are they the be all end all of the rifle world!
Just my 2 cents on the subject
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There is no evidence to support cut-rifled barrels as being more accurate as compared to button rifled.
Stainless will rust less than CM and blueing.
Composite stocks are more stable than wood.
Don't see many Mauser actions in precision competition. Top 4 (more or less) Defiance, Surgeon, Accuracy International, Remington 700.
Modern Military rifles are not Mauser CRF actions....soldiers face very dangerous scenarios.
I could go on but you get the idea, time to rethink your so called FACTS.
Mausers are without a doubt a very good design but by no means are they the be all end all of the rifle world!
Just my 2 cents on the subject
These facts are a little hard to dismiss, on cut rifled vs button... The winners are shooting cut rifled, too. You have many fair points but the part about the button vs cut rifled is very flawed, button rifled are accurate, but not close to an as stress free as possible cut rifled barrel.
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Hey Ardent,
this cut and paste from 6mmbr.com
Which is Better, Button Rifling or Cut Rifling? There is no clearly superior form of rifling. Check the results from major benchrest matches and you will see both cut-rifled Kriegers, and button-rifled Harts, Liljas, and Shilens among the trophy-winners. David Tubb has dominated cross-course and high-power shooting with Schneider pull-buttoned barrels, but Kriegers are favored by many Palma shooters and members of the USA F-class team. Button rifling can produce a very smooth interior finish, and the majority of winning 6PPC barrels are buttoned. On the other hand, many shooters believe cut-rifled barrels last a bit longer. By the nature of the manufacturing process, cut-rifling puts fewer stresses in the steel and twist rate is more likely to be uniform. Additionally, a cut-rifled barrel can be fluted before the bore is rifled. On buttoned barrels, fluting must be done after the bore is rifled and stress-relieved, so there's a chance stresses from profiling/fluting can alter the bore. The only possible issues we've heard with cut-rifled barrels, particularly Kriegers, is that the high, sharp lands can be tough on 6.5mm J4 jacketed bullets, such as the Clinch Rivers and JLKs, when they are driven above 2950fps in an 8-twist barre
this cut and paste from 6mmbr.com
Which is Better, Button Rifling or Cut Rifling? There is no clearly superior form of rifling. Check the results from major benchrest matches and you will see both cut-rifled Kriegers, and button-rifled Harts, Liljas, and Shilens among the trophy-winners. David Tubb has dominated cross-course and high-power shooting with Schneider pull-buttoned barrels, but Kriegers are favored by many Palma shooters and members of the USA F-class team. Button rifling can produce a very smooth interior finish, and the majority of winning 6PPC barrels are buttoned. On the other hand, many shooters believe cut-rifled barrels last a bit longer. By the nature of the manufacturing process, cut-rifling puts fewer stresses in the steel and twist rate is more likely to be uniform. Additionally, a cut-rifled barrel can be fluted before the bore is rifled. On buttoned barrels, fluting must be done after the bore is rifled and stress-relieved, so there's a chance stresses from profiling/fluting can alter the bore. The only possible issues we've heard with cut-rifled barrels, particularly Kriegers, is that the high, sharp lands can be tough on 6.5mm J4 jacketed bullets, such as the Clinch Rivers and JLKs, when they are driven above 2950fps in an 8-twist barre
Yup. You don't see many Mausers in competitions where the objective is holes in a target.Don't see many Mauser actions in precision competition. Top 4 (more or less) Defiance, Surgeon, Accuracy International, Remington 700.
Modern Military rifles are not Mauser CRF actions....soldiers face very dangerous scenarios.
I could go on but you get the idea, time to rethink your so called FACTS.
Mausers are without a doubt a very good design but by no means are they the be all end all of the rifle world!
Just my 2 cents on the subject
You see Mauser actions when the "competition" is with large dangerous animals with horns, teeth and hooves that can and will stomp you to death if your rifle doesn't perform.
Lose a "precision competition" and you go home sad. Lose the second competition and you go home dead.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
There is no evidence to support cut-rifled barrels as being more accurate as compared to button rifled.
Stainless will rust less than CM and blueing.
Composite stocks are more stable than wood.
Don't see many Mauser actions in precision competition. Top 4 (more or less) Defiance, Surgeon, Accuracy International, Remington 700.
Modern Military rifles are not Mauser CRF actions....soldiers face very dangerous scenarios.
I could go on but you get the idea, time to rethink your so called FACTS.
Mausers are without a doubt a very good design but by no means are they the be all end all of the rifle world!
Just my 2 cents on the subject
A majority of high end precision barrels used by champion shooters use cut rifling.
High quality bluing on a finely finished rifle actually resists rust as well as stainless steel. The issue is processes like polishing to a near mirror finish and rust bluing (not all bluing is made equal) are time consuming and therefore very expensive. Stainless is cheap.
Composite stocks are more stable than wood, they also aren't as aesthetically pleasing. Additionally, checkering offers not only great aesthetics, but an excellent gripping surface on the stock. Synthetic stocks can and do get slippery when wet.
The argument can be made that the Remington 700 action (Defiance and Surgeon actions quite clearly being based off the Rem 700 action) are ultimately based on features originally designed by Mauser, or are based off of actions derived from the Mauser action. The reason why you don't see Mauser actions in use for precision competitions is it would be too expensive.
Modern Military rifles also generally aren't bolt action, so what's your point?
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Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
You use what you have. That doesn't mean it's the best, or even a good choice.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Like I said.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
You mean that Defiance and Surgeon are a bad idea for dangerous games rifle?
Not at all. They may be well be excellent products but what is the best choice for one endeavor isn't necessarily the best choice for another. The majority of bolt-action DGR that I've seen were Mauser-based actions. It's a proven choice.
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