What is the best combat handgun in use today?

richardoldfield

richardoldfield

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NAA wrote:

"It's a Glock 22... the finest combat handgun currently on the face of the earth.... I wouldn't expect anything less..."

What is the best combat handgun in use today? By this, I mean what is the most accurate, reliable, and economical handgun to arm a large body of people with?

My answer is a Glock 17 and my reasons are it is totally reliable, the ammo is in use all around the world, and Glock gives large discounts on volume sales. Lastly, I throw out the 40 S&W because the ammo is expensive and snappy to fire.

My favorite handgun is a 1911 in 45acp; why didn't I respond with a 1911 pistol? I have never had a malfi with a G17 and the G17's manual of arms is simpler.

Regards,

Richard:D
 
"What is the difference between the Kimber Pro Carry and my Kimber Custom Compact?"

Have we figured out the answer to your first question of the week?? :p
 
I am not saying I agree or disagree but answer me this riddle; why isn't anyone using the Glocks in combat? Instead they are using the Beretta 92 poop. And such.

I have my own thoughts and 1911's are not really in the running; I like striker fired pistols. Quantity of rounds is almost irrelevant as any of these pistols can be made to carry tons of rounds as desired. I think it boils down to reliability and reliability. The Glocks have a total of under 40 significant parts. That's it. So why not Glocks? Perhaps too many good guys shooting their fingers off? Dunno.

Personally, I love the HK P7M8 and P7M13. They are not intended for prolonged combat as they heat up due to the gas piston system, which is both their weakness and their great strength. The recoil is straight back essentially. The barrel is fixed. Accuracy is awesome and they are the safest, fastest to arms handgun on the market (with safety taken into consideration). So why not the P7M13 for instance? They have a wierd manual of arms but they are not extraordinarily complex really. I had one taken down on the weekend and it was no big deal really. Like I say, the only thing that I can think of is the gas piston system causing grief, but we have run several hundred rounds through one of them and given them a basic cleaning only after each session. Takes five minutes they are so easy to field strip and clean. Even this gas piston that everyone gaggles about is easy as pie to clean and we have yet to see any sort of trouble. You have to remember not to shoot lead through them though... that will for sure gum up the piston. Even if the piston clogs, it doesn't seem that difficult an issue to resolve with chemicals and a few pipe cleaners that are readily available ... same ones that we use for the M15s should work.

So, my choice? If it's not a .45? It would have to be the P7M13. Safe. Reliable. Dead accurate with a fixed barrel. Breeze to field strip to the nitty gritty (Glocks actually seem more difficult). Relatively linear recoil as opposed to being 'flippy'. And ultra ultra safe. Ease of use with one hand is exceptional. Double strike capable. No need for fancy footwork to get it cocked with one hand... just squeeze.

I think their issue was the price. HK refused and rightly so, to reduce the price significantly for large quantities. They have a gem in disguise. Pity that they should discontinue the model series because of flagging sales. IMHO they shot themselves in the foot (pardon the pun) by not juggling prices versus volume. IMHO it is worth every penny of the almost $2K we paid for the locally... could have saved a couple of hundred by farting around but we went to our local dealer whom we are now supporting in return for his support of our club(s).

Next purchase will be a couple of M15's ... will use the P7M8's to fight our way to our M15's as they say.

For concealed carry, Canada legal size (if you got the paperwork), there is nothing better than the P7M8.

I guess you could say I am a fan. And I love my Kimbers too... but not for bet my life on them carry them all day concealed reliable and easy to clean and maintain etc. Mind, they are half the price. But they don't park themselves.


richardoldfield said:
NAA wrote:

"It's a Glock 22... the finest combat handgun currently on the face of the earth.... I wouldn't expect anything less..."

What is the best combat handgun in use today? By this, I mean what is the most accurate, reliable, and economical handgun to arm a large body of people with?

My answer is a Glock 17 and my reasons are it is totally reliable, the ammo is in use all around the world, and Glock gives large discounts on volume sales. Lastly, I throw out the 40 S&W because the ammo is expensive and snappy to fire.

My favorite handgun is a 1911 in 45acp; why didn't I respond with a 1911 pistol? I have never had a malfi with a G17 and the G17's manual of arms is simpler.

Regards,

Richard:D
Click to expand...
 
Never heard of Glock 22 being used in combat anywhere on earth. It's just a cop gun.

Interestingly, even though Glock 17 was originally designed for the Austrian military, very few other armies ended up adopting Glock pistols. Sig, HK and Beretta seem to be far more popular with military users. One can't help but wonder why that is the case. My guess is that the features that make it so popular with police forces are largely irrelevant for military users. One of the greatest appeals of the Glock pistol is the fact that it is designed for the lowest common denominator and is supposed to be idiot proof. The long trigger pull that is supposed to prevent accidental discharges is less relevant in a war setting because when a soldier points his gun at something, he usually intends to shoot it (this is applies to the traditional war setting, not an urban Iraq-type situation where soldiers are often required to clear houses, etc). Then there is also the fact that up until the 1980's, most police forces were still using revolvers. Glock operates exactly like a double action revolver, which reduces training costs(at least in theory). On the other hand, most western militaries have switched to semi-autos early in the last century so there is no need to retrain soldiers.

In my view, any combat-worthy pistol must satisfy the following four requirements:

1) Reliability
2) Durability
3) Corrosion resistance
4) SA/DA or SAO trigger with external safety and/or decocker

Based on those parameters, I would probably pick HK USP, or the German-made Sig P22x series, or maybe even the good old Browning Hi-Power.
 
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US army rejected Glock before the trials because they lacked the ability to strike the primer more than one time.

I know that clearing a defective round by racking the slide may be faster and more sure but that's what they wanted for their new pistol.
 
In it's better examples, the best fighting handgun ever made is the 1911. It stops fights. All the controls are in the right place, and it is the safest system available with the fastest first shot. I have never been able to understand why some think a heavy DA pull is superior to a SA. The RCMP's issue gun is a fine example of taking the worst feature of the revolver (a long heavy trigger pull) and implementing it to a pistol. The 1911's basic design is almost 100 years old, yet the bolt action almost unchanged since 1898 is still the heart of the modern rifle. The 1911 has evolved into a modern firearm providing the balance of speed, accuracy, and power needed to win the day.
 
Reliability,......decent trigger, easy to use,...Reliability......and Reliability.....

Just about any of the HK's....including the HK45. So many configurations available to suit individual needs. DAO, DA/SA, SA with safety, no safety, decocker and safety, decocker only,..right sided, left sided, ambi.....and you can get the mags dirty and full of sand and mud,...shake them off (or not) and it still works.......
Competition shooters look for light triggers, big magwells, light recoil, (with down-loaded ammunition)...... Those are all great things to look for in a pistol..but using duty type or full power ammunition requires a gun that can handle it.....(I am talking duty type guns).
 
The one you have in your hand when you need it, alternativly, the one that fits and suits you best...there really aren't any dogs out there anymore...well ok, glocks look like dogs(breakfast) but they work great.:runaway:
 
Can-down said:
"What is the difference between the Kimber Pro Carry and my Kimber Custom Compact?"

Have we figured out the answer to your first question of the week?? :p
Click to expand...

The answer, I was given, is the Kimber Pro Carry has a commander sized grip and the Kimber Custom Compact has an Officer sized grip. Regards, Richard:D
 
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There is only one pistol that has seen combat, regularly for 90 years and is still issued to soldiers in various special ops jobs around the world. If you want dishwasher safe, combat tupperware your entitled to think that way. The facts can't be changed though.
 
Garand said:
There is only one pistol that has seen combat, regularly for 90 years and is still issued to soldiers in various special ops jobs around the world. If you want dishwasher safe, combat tupperware your entitled to think that way. The facts can't be changed though.
Click to expand...

well, yes, and the high power is still going strong too, but that doesn't make them the best, just the most familiar..
 
richardoldfield said:
NAA wrote:

"It's a Glock 22... the finest combat handgun currently on the face of the earth.... I wouldn't expect anything less..."
Click to expand...

Fer gawd's sakes man, don't quote me! :redface: :p :D

Capp325 makes a good point... the Glock 22... is "just a cop gun"... but then back in the ole days of the cops having wheelguns they had [and still have] PPC, which = Police Pistol Combat, no?

I've got a Glock 22 that I've been shooting since 1995 & not one hic-cup.

So, I'm with you Richard, while I love my 1911's [best damn Government in the world!] I'd pick the G22.... :eek:
 
Best combat gun ???

Of course its the gun that belongs to the soldier walking away from the fight!

The best weapon around ... BRAINS !

Alot of stuff is reliable today, 1911 patterns, HK's, Rugers, Sigs, Glocks, CZ's its the person who wheels the gun and lives that's the best!

Best equipement is useless if you cannot use it efficiently, and when you rely on equipment instead of brains, you will run into problems real quick.

So best combat weapon = a well trained and motivated soldier , period!!!

Tightgroup
 
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The dutch use the G17. They also buy the same Diemaco C7 as we do, however they have a 3 round burst setting.
I worked with the Dutch military fro an entire year. I once asked them why they bought the C7 and Glock 9mm. The answer he gave me was so simple it gave me pause.
The C7 met the standard of the trials and was viewed as the better rifle.
The G17 also met the standards but had a feature that was unique to itself.
Anyone involved in military training will appreciate this.

You don't have to re-train or re-familiarize people with the G17. Its clerk proof.

Think about it. No more "refreshers" for people who have not touched it for years.

Look at other pistol platforms.

safetys
hammers, half-####
de-cocker
bevertail
red you dead dots
cant fire without mag inserted
fragile mags
fragile mag lips

I am a 1911 fan, but even I have to admit the 9mm Glock has a valid place in the military.
 
p226 its used by most millitary elite unit, it just work. But i agree the G17 would e my choise for large groupe of not so well trained pepole its just so simple and robust
 
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