What is the best polymer handgun?
- Thread starter Segue2002
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bkelly4790
Regular
So the death blow of the fine motor skill argument against not using the slide release/bolt release is generally the magazine release is about the same size so some how people don't seem to have their fine motor skills impaired enought to not be able hit that but can't hit the slide release?
Both techniques should be practiced they have their time and place where they should be used and you will hear that from former JSOC SMU guys like Kyle Defoor, Tom Spooner, Pat Mac, Mike Pannone, John McPhee and other respected trainers.
Both techniques should be practiced they have their time and place where they should be used and you will hear that from former JSOC SMU guys like Kyle Defoor, Tom Spooner, Pat Mac, Mike Pannone, John McPhee and other respected trainers.
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so...are there any 1911 with polymer lowers/frames? 
I think the confusion comes with the term "loss of fine motor control". There is a loss of fine motor skill but not an absence of it. Do anything under stress and your abilities will be less than when you do the same task without the stress like making a three point shot in the dying seconds of the game or getting a breakaway late in the third period.
The other point to consider is that pressing a magazine release is a force directed against the entire surface of the button and directed into the gun. The slide stop is a glancing kind of motion that is prone to slipping. Some schools/instructors also teach to use the support hand thumb to activate the magazine release as it offers far more force without compromising the grip and control of the pistol.
so...are there any 1911 with polymer lowers/frames?
Interesting question...I'm gonna have to google that...my sig p320 comes close and so does the cz phantom...both fantastic platforms...but none that I know of....
- Location
- British Canuckistan
hmm, apparently Tanfoglio has a 1911 Witness with a poly frame in both .45 and 9mm.
https://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handguns/witness-elite-1911-polymer-tanfoglio-22
https://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handguns/witness-elite-1911-polymer-tanfoglio-22
so...are there any 1911 with polymer lowers/frames?
Well STI has a double stack 1911 that will relieve you of the other side of $2K so you can play IDPA or IPSC with an outstanding gun.
Dietz - the only reason I can think of for the mag release to be on the left side of the gun is because Mr Browning put it there on his 1911 AFIK he was left handed. I have medium large hands and have to shift the gun in my grip to get to the mag release on guns like the M&P, CZ and and Glock to name three. Just one reason why I move the mag release to the right side of the gun, I am right handed. I then use my trigger finger to hit the mag release.. way faster and I don`t have to shift my grip or take the gun off my intended target. This adjustment is way easier than asking the major gun manufacturers to redesign their pistols.:.)
Take Care
Bob
Glock pistols were intentionally designed for deliberate dominant hand or support hand magazine release and the slide stop was designed to manually lock the slide to the rear and NOT to release the slide. Good design or not, there are many polymer copy cat guns that seem to follow this design as well.
Right, that is why Bob Vogel, who shoots Glock pistols uses the slide release to release the slide, teaches it and says in his videos it is faster than using the sling shot method. I understand he no longer works full time as a LEO, preferring to make his living shooting Glocks as a sponsored shooter. Among his credits are a World Production IPSC Championship using a Glock 17 and several World and National IDPA Championships using a Glock 34.
I have not heard one reason for anyone to choose a slower method of charging their pistol whether shooting in a competition or participating in a gun fight. The latter being something few here will ever experience.
For those who cannot hit the mag release on their Glock or other pistol try this if the gun will allow it. Reverse the mag release to the right side if you are right handed and hit the mag release with your trigger finger. It is faster than shifting the gun to use your thumb of your dominant hand and for some is much faster and leaves the gun pointing in the general direction of the target. I believe the Gen 4 Glocks offer a reversible mag release.
Take Care
Bob
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Or you could shoot a Grand Power where if you smack that mag in during a reload, your slide will auto-forward. I love this feature as it saves me time if I run my X-Calibur dry during a course of fire
A lot of polymer guns will do this.
I could not get my G17, G17L, or G34 to do this consistently. But maybe other polymer guns?
HKs will. M&Ps will. I thought my 17 did, too, but I haven't shot it in a while so maybe my memory is faulty.
I suppose it's not "a lot", but it's not a unique feature. It takes me by surprise because it only seems to happen in matches when I guess adrenaline is making me drive those mags home.
Took the Glocks out for a bit tonight. Definitely requires a really hard mag insertion and still does not do it consistently. For the Grand Power's, I think it's a byproduct of the light recoil spring their rotating barrel lockup allows. It just does not take much effort to jar the slide loose from the slide-lock to allow it to auto-forward. The angle of impact makes a big difference too. Here's a video I did a while back to help other GP shooters
Handguns with a weak slide lock bite will do that.
Glocks don't do that because they don't have that design flaw.
Those design features and their reasonings come straight from Glock. The sling shot method is not significantly slower and is easier to execute and it mimics an immediate action drill. Glock pistols were designed for military and law enforcement, I don't think Glock really concerns themselves much with what competitors want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p9JcQGyw2E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFIsPjEXt70
Well we make progress at least you admit it is slower. How long does it take for a bullet to travel 45 feet. A significant short time or just a short time? For most the slingshot method is significantly slower whether you think so or not. This is one reason why Vogel champions the slide release lever over the sling shot method.
Glock brought out the 34 and 35 for one purpose and that was to compete in USPSA and IDPA. No other reason. The guns are not allowed in IPSC Production Division. Have you ever heard the comment what wins on Sunday sells on Monday? Glocks have won more IDPA SSP Division titles than any other pistol and dominates that sport along with the M&P's. In fact Glock sponsors Glock only shooting competitions in the US so I suspect Glock has more of an interest in the shooting sports than you think. A significant number of shooters who participate in USPSA and IDPA also are CCW holders and many use the same gun in competitions as they do to carry.
Is the fact the Glocks have a heavy slide and are susceptible to limp wristing a feature to ensure shooters practice clearing jams?
FYI the only gun I have seen jam more at matches is the 1911. The Glocks seem to run afoul of limp wristing when shooters have to shoot around the weak side of barriers. Oh I know shooters should practice more and learn proper techniques. Thought I would get ahead of your next comment.
How much practice do you do shooting around the weak side of barriers - that would be the left side if you are right handed?
Take Care
Bob
Or you could shoot a Grand Power where if you smack that mag in during a reload, your slide will auto-forward. I love this feature as it saves me time if I run my X-Calibur dry during a course of fire
At the moment I have the Grand Power K22S in .22LR and I consider that slide auto-forward a nice feature at the range, although not really absolutely necessary. Kind of the icing on the cake. My GP K22S shoots great. It's my most accurate .22LR pistol, even a bit more accurate than the GSG 1911 with a ZRTS Performance Package. It beats hand-down any Ruger .22LR or Browning Buckmark. The GP K22S is also the only .22LR pistol on the market with a long STEEL SLIDE! I guess that all internal parts are made of ordnance steel. The grip is obviously polymer composite. All the GP pistols are of excellent quality. I'm looking now for a 9mm GP either K100 or in X-Trim, most likely, a lightly used one. I already have three 9mm pistols in my collection so I'm not in a hurry, anyway.
