- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Does the shorter barrel make them more deadly?
What is the LARGEST 12(6) pistol prohibited because of barrel length?
- Thread starter Dr.Chris
- Start date
Oh yeah, and the 32 caliber too, way more deadly. Every liberalcrat just shivers in his panties when he thinks about short barrelled guns, possibly in 32, in Canadian cities, we're not making this up! - dan
prproulx said:The S&W auto with 4" barrels come to mind. Sitting next to a restricted commander, it's hard to see any difference in size including barrel length.
My 3906 is all steel and weighs at least as much as a commander.
Hey Pat,
Nice gun!
Jeff/1911.
I saw a website that had a picture custom revolver in .480 Ruger that had been converted to .500 Linebaugh, and it only had a 3" barrel! I can't remember the link, unfortunately.
- Dave.
- Dave.
The Borchardt is deemed antique. 7.65 Borchardt cartridge is not considered to be ".32 calibre" for prohibition purposes. If it were, the pistol would be prohib. regardless of date of manufacture. Some cartridges which are nominally .32 calibre put the pistol in the 12(6) prohib. class, some don't. 7.65 Luger, 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev are in this category, with the pistols being restricted - or deemed antique if early enough, like some 1896 Mausers. The French 1935 pistols in 7.65mm Longue are restricted, the cartridge not being considered to be .32 calibre.
- Location
- South Cariboo, BC
I thought a big part of the motivation to ban .32 handguns was the horrific idea of ex police equipment ending up in the hands of law abiding citizens? The police were already getting rid of these calibers because the badguys are far better armed anyway.
peckerwood
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- PalePony, Yukon
The key would be looking into the FRT or to call the CFC and the RCMP forensic firearms division to see if it is classed as a 32 calibre cartridge.tiriaq said:
As for date of manufacture, this is erroneous. The fact is that if a gun is manufactured pre 1898 then it is within the first guideline of antique status...the next guideline being that of specific calibre restriction.
A Borschardt manufactured before 1898 that is not chambered for the following list of cartridges is deemed to be a prescribed antique and therefore exempt from prohibition, restriction, or registration:
The 7.65mm borschardt isn't on the list...and therefore is not deemed to be anything but an antique so long as the gun that is chambered for it happened to be manufactured before 1898
So technically if the gubbmint classifies the 7.65mm Borchardt cartridge as a 32 caliber, then all post 1898 handguns in that calibre are considered to be prohib unless continually registered before and up to 1998 and manufactured before 1946.
This is why you can own without licence any 32 caliber short barreled handguns that were manufactured before 1898, so long as the caliber isn't on the above restricted list.
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The Borchardt is deemed antique, according to the FRT. According to the FRT, Borchardts are pre-1898. The deemed antique status is because of date of manufacture, calibre is not a factor, the 7.65mm Borchardt cartridge not being considered to be .32 calibre.
If you read SOR 98 464 Regulations, which you quoted, you will note the list of cartridges which determine non-antique status. Pistols chambered for the highlighted .32 calibre cartridges are not antique. Because they are not deemed antique, and are considered to be .32 caliber, they are therefore prohibited.
Examples are the various calibres of Colt Single action Army revolvers. Those in .32-20 are prohibited, regardless of date of manufacture, those in .41 are antique if made before 1898, and restricted if post 1897, those in .45 Colt are restricted, regardless of date.
As far as barrel length is concerned, if a pre-1898 pistol is chambered for one of the cartridges on the list, and has a barrel under 105mm, it is prohibited. Over 105mm, its restricted. Examples: a pre-'98 .45 Colt over 105mm is restricted, one under 105mm is prohibited. The same pre-'98 Colt in .41 would be antique, regardless of barrel length. No pre-'98 pistol in .32 S&W is deemed antique. All pre-'98 pistols in .32rf are deemed antique.
You are correct in that you can own pre-'98 .32 calibre pistols, regardless of barrel length, without licence, if the cartridge is not on the list.
If the regulation were re-written, and 7.65 Borchardt, 7.65 Luger, 7.63 Mauser, 7.62 Tokarev, etc. were classified as .32 calibre, then the pistols would automatically become prohibited, regardless of date of manufacture.
Just for curiosity's sake, I ran a search on the FRT with ".32 S&W" as the calibre descriptor. A long list resulted. Every pistol is classed as prohibited, even when the pistol was out of production before 1898.
If you read SOR 98 464 Regulations, which you quoted, you will note the list of cartridges which determine non-antique status. Pistols chambered for the highlighted .32 calibre cartridges are not antique. Because they are not deemed antique, and are considered to be .32 caliber, they are therefore prohibited.
Examples are the various calibres of Colt Single action Army revolvers. Those in .32-20 are prohibited, regardless of date of manufacture, those in .41 are antique if made before 1898, and restricted if post 1897, those in .45 Colt are restricted, regardless of date.
As far as barrel length is concerned, if a pre-1898 pistol is chambered for one of the cartridges on the list, and has a barrel under 105mm, it is prohibited. Over 105mm, its restricted. Examples: a pre-'98 .45 Colt over 105mm is restricted, one under 105mm is prohibited. The same pre-'98 Colt in .41 would be antique, regardless of barrel length. No pre-'98 pistol in .32 S&W is deemed antique. All pre-'98 pistols in .32rf are deemed antique.
You are correct in that you can own pre-'98 .32 calibre pistols, regardless of barrel length, without licence, if the cartridge is not on the list.
If the regulation were re-written, and 7.65 Borchardt, 7.65 Luger, 7.63 Mauser, 7.62 Tokarev, etc. were classified as .32 calibre, then the pistols would automatically become prohibited, regardless of date of manufacture.
Just for curiosity's sake, I ran a search on the FRT with ".32 S&W" as the calibre descriptor. A long list resulted. Every pistol is classed as prohibited, even when the pistol was out of production before 1898.
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peckerwood
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- PalePony, Yukon
Excluding the Luger-improved ones made in 1899...those would be deemed as registerable restricteds no?tiriaq said:
You pretty much said what I said except rewrote it in your words here.
Self explanatory...and not unlike other posts I have made in regards to the subject in the past
Here is where it gets confusing...the two laws are in contradiction to each other. The law regarding 32 caliber prohibition simply states: "is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge, but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union"
Designed or Adapted
Therein lies the first problem...it creates a blanket prohibition on all 32 caliber firearms. That would mean that all guns manufactured before 1898 that were 32 caliber would also be prohib status...regardless of being centrefire or rimfire...and regardless of being on the caliber list or not. Hence the confusion.
Because for some reason 32 rimfire isn't being prohibited...nor is 320 bulldog. Are they not 32 caliber cartridges? No distinction is made in regards to 32 caliber cartridges made after 1898...it simply says designed or adapted.
All I see is contradiction in the law at this point.
you said:
Also I am still confused as to the 32 acp...was it not originally called 7.65mm Browning and then renamed for the American market by Colt (Automatic Colt Pistol)?me said:
Again...there is no argument here...just consensus.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Dr.Chris said:
SIG-Sauer P228? Or the P229?
I assume the .32 S&W revolvers with 6-inch barrels (they do exist, I am told) would be the largest prohibited handgun, but that's because of the calibre.
BTW, the P7M10 is rubbish, I'd take that one off your wishlist. Plus the P7K3 requires a new buffer every 3,000 rounds or so, and they were next to impossible to get even when H&K were making the things.
