What is this?
- Thread starter Otokiak
- Start date
Desert_Fox
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
'Tis a Portuguese Mauser-Vergueiro. Made in Deutschland! 
Espingarda 6,5 mm m/1904, just like it says on the receiver side, translates to: Rifle 6.5mm m(model)/1904.
Caliber 6.5x58mm Vergueiro. Good luck finding that in your local CanTire!
Very nice rifle though.
Espingarda 6,5 mm m/1904, just like it says on the receiver side, translates to: Rifle 6.5mm m(model)/1904.
Caliber 6.5x58mm Vergueiro. Good luck finding that in your local CanTire!
Very nice rifle though.
I do not recall ever seeing any factory ammunition for these rifles.
I've not done it, but I suspect that cases could be made from, say, .270, by FL sizing and trimming. Standard 6.5 bullets are used. It is a good cartridge, not unlike the 6.5x55 as far as performnce goes.
I've not done it, but I suspect that cases could be made from, say, .270, by FL sizing and trimming. Standard 6.5 bullets are used. It is a good cartridge, not unlike the 6.5x55 as far as performnce goes.
Desert_Fox
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
T'was sarcasm my friend... I thought the
gave it away for sure! Contact Reloaders.ca, perhaps he can order some in for you.
Also, try Rayner Shine, they might be able to get loaded cartridges, I'm not sure if Hornady or PRVI make that caliber though.
Desert_Fox
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
JP is absolutely right, of course.
I have the twin to this one and it is definitely 8x57. The conversions were done in Germany in 1937, at which time portugal bought some 98s and a bunch of ammo, then got another batch of "ex-Wehrmacht" 98s as a gift from that nice Uncle Adolf. Portugal then set up to manufacture the 8x57 cartridge as the 7.92 m/937. Their headstamp is "FNM" and they made some of the nicest 8mm ammo ever done. Only problem is that the stuff all was to the JsS spec: 196-grain BTFMJ slug and a kick like a mule. It would run a '42 at unbelieveable speeds.
The Mauser-Vergueiro is one of the slickest rifles ever made. MOST of the rifle is off-the-shelf Mauser parts, but the RECIVER and BOLT are a distinctive Portuguese design. Likely the quickst-disassembling bolt of anything made. And the actions were just SUPERSLICK and every bit as smooth as a Greek Mannlicher.
Load your own 8x57 ammo with 175s and you have one heck of a fine caribou rifle there: commercial stuff is underloaded to a truly sad degree.
FINE toy!
.
I have the twin to this one and it is definitely 8x57. The conversions were done in Germany in 1937, at which time portugal bought some 98s and a bunch of ammo, then got another batch of "ex-Wehrmacht" 98s as a gift from that nice Uncle Adolf. Portugal then set up to manufacture the 8x57 cartridge as the 7.92 m/937. Their headstamp is "FNM" and they made some of the nicest 8mm ammo ever done. Only problem is that the stuff all was to the JsS spec: 196-grain BTFMJ slug and a kick like a mule. It would run a '42 at unbelieveable speeds.
The Mauser-Vergueiro is one of the slickest rifles ever made. MOST of the rifle is off-the-shelf Mauser parts, but the RECIVER and BOLT are a distinctive Portuguese design. Likely the quickst-disassembling bolt of anything made. And the actions were just SUPERSLICK and every bit as smooth as a Greek Mannlicher.
Load your own 8x57 ammo with 175s and you have one heck of a fine caribou rifle there: commercial stuff is underloaded to a truly sad degree.
FINE toy!
.
Should have mentioned this earlier.
I used to live in a small place (winter population 200) called Seldom-Come-By. It's on Fogo Island, about 14 nm North of Newfoundland mainland. Believe me, I know all about the problems shopping in small towns. We bought bread by the pound, "butter" (margarine) by the block, milk by the tin (Carnation) and loose gunpowder (Black) which we ladelled out of a 25-pound box with a cookie scoop. Biggest problem was that the musket-caps were Eley - London and they were pre-WW2. Worked, though.
Have someone freight you in a few boxe of Prvi Partizan 8x57 hunting ammo. It is HOT stuff but the rifle will handle it. Brass is excellent for reloading, too. Best powder for this cartridge is likely 4895; you can load ALL your old smokeless-powder military cartridges with it. Bullet diameter is .323". Trade-Ex has Partizan brass in stock ($60/100) and 175-grain bullets as well. Tan link at the top of this page, 10 o'clock from the world-famous CGN Beaver. Primers: you can use just about any Large Rifle primer. For use in COLD weather (which you know ALL about!) just stay with the regular primers. Extreme cold and humidity can slow down a firing-pin, so you don't want those special primers that they use for Garands. But any regular primer (Federal, Winchester, CCI, Remington) should do the job. FWIW, I'm using CCIs.
Good luck on the project.
Yesss: NICE rifle!
.
I used to live in a small place (winter population 200) called Seldom-Come-By. It's on Fogo Island, about 14 nm North of Newfoundland mainland. Believe me, I know all about the problems shopping in small towns. We bought bread by the pound, "butter" (margarine) by the block, milk by the tin (Carnation) and loose gunpowder (Black) which we ladelled out of a 25-pound box with a cookie scoop. Biggest problem was that the musket-caps were Eley - London and they were pre-WW2. Worked, though.
Have someone freight you in a few boxe of Prvi Partizan 8x57 hunting ammo. It is HOT stuff but the rifle will handle it. Brass is excellent for reloading, too. Best powder for this cartridge is likely 4895; you can load ALL your old smokeless-powder military cartridges with it. Bullet diameter is .323". Trade-Ex has Partizan brass in stock ($60/100) and 175-grain bullets as well. Tan link at the top of this page, 10 o'clock from the world-famous CGN Beaver. Primers: you can use just about any Large Rifle primer. For use in COLD weather (which you know ALL about!) just stay with the regular primers. Extreme cold and humidity can slow down a firing-pin, so you don't want those special primers that they use for Garands. But any regular primer (Federal, Winchester, CCI, Remington) should do the job. FWIW, I'm using CCIs.
Good luck on the project.
Yesss: NICE rifle!
.
And, do not ever take the bolt apart. There is nothing in the world as difficult as assembling a Vergueiro bolt. You will live to regret it if you strip it. If you want to clean it just use a can of brake cleaner and wash the bolt out, but again: DO NOT STRIP IT!!!!!.
I assembled one for a friend and they defy all logic and most peoples attention spans.
I assembled one for a friend and they defy all logic and most peoples attention spans.
I agree, I have a small stash of this ammo and it is very stout to shoot. I guess I better chrony some of it out of my Yugo M-48 and see what it does.
Mark
PPU makes ammo for it:
Article Caliber Bullet
A-117 6.5 x 57 Mauser SP 123 8 845 2860 610
A-228 6.5 x 57 Mauser SP BT 139 9 790 2810 610
A-229 6.5 x 57 Mauser FMJ BT 139 9 790 2810 610
A-230 6.5 x 57 Mauser SP RN 156 10.1 740 2770 610
http://www.prvipartizan.com/rifle.php
Article Caliber Bullet
A-117 6.5 x 57 Mauser SP 123 8 845 2860 610
A-228 6.5 x 57 Mauser SP BT 139 9 790 2810 610
A-229 6.5 x 57 Mauser FMJ BT 139 9 790 2810 610
A-230 6.5 x 57 Mauser SP RN 156 10.1 740 2770 610
http://www.prvipartizan.com/rifle.php
That is not quite the Portuguese 6.5.
From CH4 die list.
1501 - 1550 of 1918 Next Page >>
Caliber Notes Group Price Shell Holder Case Holder
6.5 x 52 R 4 F $ 81.38 2 - -
6.5 x 53 R Dutch 4 F $ 81.38 8B - -
6.5 x 53.5 R French Daudeteau 3 F $ 81.38 76 - -
6.5 x 54 Kurz Mauser 4 F $ 81.38 1 - -
6.5 x 54 MS 4 C $ 54.25 14 N
6.5 x 54 R 2 F $ 81.38 76 - -
6.5 x 55 Swedish Improved 40 4 F $ 81.38 2 Q
6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser 4 A $ 47.46 2 Q
6.5 x 57 4 F $ 81.38 4 - -
6.5 x 57 Mauser - - F $ 81.38 - - - -
6.5 x 57 R 4 F $ 81.38 6/19 - -
6.5 x 58 Portuguese 4 F $ 81.38 1 B
6.5 x 58 R Danish Krag 3 F $ 81.38 47 - -
6.5 x 58 R H.O. - - F $ 81.38 - - - -
6.5 x 58 R Sauer 4 F $ 81.38 2 - -
Drawings courtesy of CH4
6.5x58 Portuguese(R) Compared to 6.5x55 Swede (L)
From CH4 die list.
1501 - 1550 of 1918 Next Page >>
Caliber Notes Group Price Shell Holder Case Holder
6.5 x 52 R 4 F $ 81.38 2 - -
6.5 x 53 R Dutch 4 F $ 81.38 8B - -
6.5 x 53.5 R French Daudeteau 3 F $ 81.38 76 - -
6.5 x 54 Kurz Mauser 4 F $ 81.38 1 - -
6.5 x 54 MS 4 C $ 54.25 14 N
6.5 x 54 R 2 F $ 81.38 76 - -
6.5 x 55 Swedish Improved 40 4 F $ 81.38 2 Q
6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser 4 A $ 47.46 2 Q
6.5 x 57 4 F $ 81.38 4 - -
6.5 x 57 Mauser - - F $ 81.38 - - - -
6.5 x 57 R 4 F $ 81.38 6/19 - -
6.5 x 58 Portuguese 4 F $ 81.38 1 B
6.5 x 58 R Danish Krag 3 F $ 81.38 47 - -
6.5 x 58 R H.O. - - F $ 81.38 - - - -
6.5 x 58 R Sauer 4 F $ 81.38 2 - -
Drawings courtesy of CH4
6.5x58 Portuguese(R) Compared to 6.5x55 Swede (L)
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GREAT information on the Vergueiro cartridge. Very special critter and very hard to find.
The information is now in my archive. Thank you.
Only problem for the OP is that THIS rifle has been converted to 8x57.
There are a few unconverted Vergueiros around, but none of them with the barrels trimmed back to 23 inches and that heavy "rabbit-ears" front-sight protector.
.
The information is now in my archive. Thank you.
Only problem for the OP is that THIS rifle has been converted to 8x57.
There are a few unconverted Vergueiros around, but none of them with the barrels trimmed back to 23 inches and that heavy "rabbit-ears" front-sight protector.
.
Otokiak, that rifle is in very nice condition. If the bore looks as good as the outside of the rifle, it will be a great shooter. These rifles are underappreciated and IMHO underpriced. The conversions were done well and tolerances were kept tight. They are strong and accurate. Not that I am suggesting you do it but the rear split bridge receiver doesn't allow for normal scope mounting. That's why so many are still to be found in original condition.
As Wheaty mentioned, the bolt head is a beotch to assemble. I picked up three of those rifles that had the bolts taken apart and the bolt heads had one of the prongs broken off. Luckily, at that time, SARCO was selling the 8mm bolt heads for $15 each. I bought 5 of them. I used the last one 2 years ago. I don't think SARCO has anymore. Not that they would ship them if they did. BATF regulations have stopped shipment of bolt parts.
If you go to Surplusrifle.com, they give step by step instructions on how to assemble and disassemble the bolt. It was such a problem for Portugal that troopies were forbidden to take their bolts apart and only qualified techs were allowed to do it. Take Wheaty's advice, blow the dirt out, lube extremely lightly and it will last forever.
Another thing, many of the original triggerguard/floorplate assemblies were robbed from these rifles for custom builds on 98 Mauser actions and the 98 assemblies were substituted on the Verguerio. The original assemblies, had hinged floorplates with a very nice release on the front of the triggerguard.
As Wheaty mentioned, the bolt head is a beotch to assemble. I picked up three of those rifles that had the bolts taken apart and the bolt heads had one of the prongs broken off. Luckily, at that time, SARCO was selling the 8mm bolt heads for $15 each. I bought 5 of them. I used the last one 2 years ago. I don't think SARCO has anymore. Not that they would ship them if they did. BATF regulations have stopped shipment of bolt parts.
If you go to Surplusrifle.com, they give step by step instructions on how to assemble and disassemble the bolt. It was such a problem for Portugal that troopies were forbidden to take their bolts apart and only qualified techs were allowed to do it. Take Wheaty's advice, blow the dirt out, lube extremely lightly and it will last forever.
Another thing, many of the original triggerguard/floorplate assemblies were robbed from these rifles for custom builds on 98 Mauser actions and the 98 assemblies were substituted on the Verguerio. The original assemblies, had hinged floorplates with a very nice release on the front of the triggerguard.
That hinged release is just great for hunting, too. If you are in or out f vehicles or aircraft, you just push the little button and the bottom of the mag pops out and dumps all your rounds in your hand. Then you flip the bolt open and you'e safe and unloaded for transit.
The hinged-release mag is exactly the same as what the expensive commercial Mauser sporters came with. That's why so many have been robbed from Vergueiros. Lots of guys have bought a Vergueiro and used just the mag, dumped the rest of the rifle.
And they are just SO very SLICK in operation. IMHO, every bit as smooth as the fabled Mannlicher-Schoenauer.
They really are much underappreciated and they are definitely undervalued. The ONLY criticism I can level at the rifle is that the striker-fall is a LITTLE on the tardy side: a function of the design of the entire bolt.
As to the BOLT, it is super-quick and easy to assemble or disassemble.... but if you don't know EXACTLY how to do it, it's very near to Mission Impossible: Vergueiro Bolt. And it is darned near impossible to DESCRIBE how to do it.
diopter: I think a lot of guys would profit from such a video.
.
The hinged-release mag is exactly the same as what the expensive commercial Mauser sporters came with. That's why so many have been robbed from Vergueiros. Lots of guys have bought a Vergueiro and used just the mag, dumped the rest of the rifle.
And they are just SO very SLICK in operation. IMHO, every bit as smooth as the fabled Mannlicher-Schoenauer.
They really are much underappreciated and they are definitely undervalued. The ONLY criticism I can level at the rifle is that the striker-fall is a LITTLE on the tardy side: a function of the design of the entire bolt.
As to the BOLT, it is super-quick and easy to assemble or disassemble.... but if you don't know EXACTLY how to do it, it's very near to Mission Impossible: Vergueiro Bolt. And it is darned near impossible to DESCRIBE how to do it.
diopter: I think a lot of guys would profit from such a video.
.
