What is with SF types and 1911's?

FraserJ20

FraserJ20

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What is with all these SOF/ SF guys using 1911's?

I mean I can't wrap my head around it.

Is it a caliber thing? If so then why not use an HK 45/ Glock 21 sf/ Sig p220?

Then again, the SOF types don't have to use ball so why use a .45 anyway?

I like 1911's, don't get me wrong, but what is the reason these professionals keep coming back to these pistols? What do they know that I don't? There are others that are: lighter, more reliable, corrosion resistant, easier to repair, etc.

Is the trigger really that good? Is it some sort of status thing?
 
You make a 1911 sound like a piece of junk the way you talk about it. Please tell me what is wrong with a 1911 as a sidearm, compared to... anything?
 
I was under the belief that SF groups are not restricted by the Geneva Convention or the Hague Convention and therefore they can use expanding ammunition but are not covered by the same treaties and therefore receive no protection? Anyone know for sure?
 
If I remember correctly, for the Geneva Conventions to even apply, all belligerent countries need to be signatories and I don't believe we've ever had a war where that was the case.
As for the 1911 as a choice, consider this, it does what it does very well and with the proper training is one of the most effective design/calibre combinations ever invented.
H&K has done a wonderful marketing job on their product line. But, if I was spending my money they are way down on the list of what I would buy (and before you ask, the answer is yes, I have examined most of the H&K line (while at H&K in the U.K., Nottingham)).
 
Geneva and rules of war apply to every military.Where Hp and other such exotic ammo can be used is in case of Terrorist etc.
As for the 1911 it comes down to shootability.The first shot/hit is of paramount importance. I've been fortunate enough to been able to attend a few shooting schools down south in the early and mid 90's. Nothing allows the first accurate shot like a single action reagrdless of the techniques used.(taking up the slack/prepping the trigger on a double /single action while lining up the sights ) The single action still allows for the 1st shot to be quicker and more acurate. Remember SOF doesnt operate the same as conventional forces and they need that first shot to be accurate.
 
why not use an HK 45/ Glock 21 sf/ Sig p220?
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Why would someone use a Glock if they can afford a 1911? :D

I can think of a couple of things here; one would be price; most PD's get Glocks because out of the proven gun list they are the cheapest. With SF guys they can afford to buy more expensive guns because they don't have to buy so many of them. Another thing is that these guys generally have AR's or SMG as well so they don't need the high capacity handgun and they work in teams. (where cops only carry one gun and often are alone). 1911's are fairly accurate and if put together right also reliable.
 
Why 1911

For most: ergonomics, user friendly, proven base, almost 100 years olds and produce by more firearms manufacturer then ever

.45ACP power, not perfect, but a real good stopper!!

Whay else to say, If they can afford it, got it?
 
you've also got to look at what's actually "in the pipeline" as far as logistics go- the "exotics" aren't so basically what you're stuck with is 223. 308, 50 cal , 9mm, and 45- the mk 23 45 is overly big, and with the suppressor sttached, becomes more of a primary( in that it has to be carried in the hands) than a secondary weapon- so what's left?- gi45- and it's something that most sf troops are VERY familair with-
 
shazam* said:
what SF groups use 1911's?
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Traditionally all U.S. SOF groups have used 1911s, notably the Army Special Forces (Green Berets) and Delta, Marine Expeditionary Units and Force Reconaissance, and Air Force Pararescuemen and Combat Controllers. The notable exception are the Navy SEAL Teams, who have been 1911-less for at least the last few decades. Standard issue has been Sig Sauer P226 Navy 9mm, S&W 686 .357 Magnum revolver, and now H&K Mod. 0 SOCOM (Mark 23 for civillians) in .45 ACP. The 1911 was not found to be corrosion-resistant enough for the underwater types.

You can also add the FBI SWAT Hostage Rescue Team, the official and legal domestic counter-terrorist unit in the U.S., as long as Posse Comitatus is in effect, who carry the deluxe Springfield Armory TRP Pro contract model.

Recently, Para-Ordnance began manufacturing a top-end double-stack 1911 for SOF units in Afghanistan. Not sure if it was designed for the Yanks, or if the Dwyer Hill boys are finally trading in their 9mm Sigs as well.

As for history, the Thompson/LaGarde study of handgun ammunition effectiveness in 1907 resulted in all U.S. troops being issued a .45 sidearm. Over the decades and through the conflicts of the 20th century, the "legendary manstopper" and "one-shot, one-kill" mystique of the .45 continued to grow. Today, the natural pointability, inherent accuracy, slim grip, short light trigger, and recoil-reducing heavy steel construction, continue to make 1911 in .45 the choice for special operators who actually use their pistols as offensive weapons, and can't afford to rely on multiple well-placed shots to put their enemy down.
 
In the end a pistol's task is quite simple, putting a shot at close quarters into the target reliably and effectively. While there are quite a few designs that do this, each one with it's own niche defined by it's "improvement" over the others, non can really be considered a quantum leap over the 1911.

Considering any of them as the sum of their parts, non of them compares better than the 1911 in terms of ergonomics, reliability, accuracy, payload, portability, customization, durability, availability, accessories.

There's not much more a pistol can be expected to do that the 1911 doesn't already do so well. Plus it just feels right in the hand and confidence is a huge plus when facing a threat.
 
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