What kills?

Splatter

Splatter

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As a suggestion from our esteemed friend Republic of Alberta I'm here to be schooled on what actually kills the big game animals we hunt.

Over in the thread http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=564067&page=4

I posted:
...it's the hole that kills, it must disrupt a vital part of the circulatory system or the CNS to result in death during the time-frame that we are interested in. (puncturing the large intestine will result in death for most game animals; but it will result from septicemia, and may take more than a week). Having the hole expand from 7 mm to 14 mm will result on a larger wound, I'm all for added insurance; but let's look at it realisically, if you miss a structure that will result in a rapid fatality by 3.5 mm, and having the bullet expand by that much will result in a hit, you are running on the very thinnest of probabilies. <

So here I am with an open mind, explain to me, if you can, why there is a significant difference in "killing power" between a non-expanding 7mm bullet and an expanding 7mm bullet.

And for the sake of argument, let's discount the probability of the non-expanding bullet tumbling in the wound tract.

And in case you're wondering, I'm not trolling, if I have any misconceptions here, I really do want some better information.
 
Look at it realisically, if you miss a structure that will result in a rapid fatality by 3.5 mm, and having the bullet expand by that much will result in a hit, you are running on the very thinnest of probabilies, but if you don't have the bullet expand by that much you are running on the certainty of not hitting that structure.
 
I think the idea is to transfer more energy into the target. When a bullet expands, most of it's energy is transferred and causes a huge shock wave through the organs. If it doesn't expand most of the energy is wasted out the other side as velocity. That's my understanding anyway, I could be wrong.
 
As I understand it, terminal ballistics consists of penetration, temporary cavitation , and a permanent wound channel. Penetration is simply the ability of the bullet to reach vital organs and tissues. Temporary cavitation is the crater momentarily created by the bullet when it penetrates the flesh. The permanent wound channel is that cavity left after the bullet has passed through the flesh.
I have done only some rudimentary tests but have found the permanent cavity diameter is much larger than the bullet diameter. It also appears that the faster a bullet expands the larger the cavity diameter but at the expense of penetration. Solids show the smallest wound cavity and greatest penetration as well as the smallest wound volume. It seems to me a bullet's effectiveness is caused by the volume of the cavity which is a combination of penetration and diameter of the cavity . Some here have done extensive testing and may have better explanations.
 
Expanding bullets create a shockwave to create a large wound channel causing massive tissue damage. In effect, yes the hole kills, but it's just a lot bigger of a hole then a standard non expanding bullet will create. Shoot into a stack of phone books and watch what happens. Same deal. That tissue damage can destroy organs in the process.

gelatin792FMJ4.JPG


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http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html

Those are a start.
 
What does a bullet,Arrow,and spear all have in common???
They all make a hole...thus it must be the hole.

What I'd like to know is..if you drop an anvil,piano, or a large rock on a coyote's head is he still dead....There's no hole so how can he..???:D

Russ...
 
Russ said:
...if you drop an anvil,piano, or a large rock on a coyote's head is he still dead....
Click to expand...

Much like my point about making a small puncture in the colon. The animal dies; but it takes a week. Not really practical.
Unless you do a lot of hunting with an anvil... then I'd like to hear about your techniques.

(still working through the links suggested)
 
The lack of oxygen to the brain which in turn shuts down the major organs, unless the brain is disrupted itself.

From what I have seen in hunting kills it is almost a two part equation.

1. The shock of the projectile hitting a target which stresses the system into a type of temporary stop of everything, like getting punched in the torso by a big guy! This looks like it depends on the energy transfer from the projectile to the animal which varies on the projectile type, expanding , FMJ, or an arrow.Also the density of the area where it hits the animal. Arrow transferring very little energy into the body of the animal.

2. The second is the speed of blood loss which also varies on the projectile again.A broadhead will make a larger wound channel than a FMJ but transfer less energy.An expanding bullet again depending on how it expands.

To me there is a misconception on this Bang-flop theory or dead right there depending on the wound. The animal appears to go down instantly and be dead when it is actually KO'd and bleeding out. I know of one animal in particular this year in which it was a supposed DRT from a neck shot. The hunter went to the animal, it appeared dead, the hunter left to get vehicle to retrieve animal, animal is gone!

This in my opinion to the question asked. Hope it opens up more discussion to elaborate on the topic. :)
 
Animals die when light gets inside them. Larger wound channels distribute the light quickly, and high velocity lets the light in faster with parallizeing effect.

Oddly, exit wounds seldom add to the killing effect, possibly because the light escapes before breaking into deadly scattered light fragments. It will sometimes take the path of least resistance, wasteing light energy. Light pencilling through like a laser is the last thing you want.

Less experienced hunters are sometimes confused when a animal runs after takeing a solid hit. This can usually be traced to hitting the shadey side of the animal, which will then inevitably head for the thickest, darkest cover to get some soothing darkness on its wound. Many animals shot at last light are never found, not surprisely since the bullets are quickly loseing their effectiveness. According to various game departments, shooting after dark must not work at all since it is seldom allowed.
 
This should get interesting... I have seen this topic covered before on other forums and there are definitely some very interesting answers ;)

ha:, Thanks for the Saturday morning pick me up Dogleg!
 
Dogleg said:
Animals die when light gets inside them. Larger wound channels distribute the light quickly, and high velocity lets the light in faster with parallizeing effect.

Oddly, exit wounds seldom add to the killing effect, possibly because the light escapes before breaking into deadly scattered light fragments. It will sometimes take the path of least resistance, wasteing light energy. Light pencilling through like a laser is the last thing you want.

Less experienced hunters are sometimes confused when a animal runs after takeing a solid hit. This can usually be traced to hitting the shadey side of the animal, which will then inevitably head for the thickest, darkest cover to get some soothing darkness on its wound. Many animals shot at last light are never found, not surprisely since the bullets are quickly loseing their effectiveness. According to various game departments, shooting after dark must not work at all since it is seldom allowed.
Click to expand...

That reminds me of how a lightbulb really works. it doesn't emit light it sucks dark. so when you turn it on it sucks up the dark and then you can see. turn it off and it stops sucking, making it hard to see. the sun is a natural dark sucker
 
Russ said:
What does a bullet,Arrow,and spear all have in common???
They all make a hole...thus it must be the hole.

What I'd like to know is..if you drop an anvil,piano, or a large rock on a coyote's head is he still dead....There's no hole so how can he..???:D

Russ...
Click to expand...


I imagine he would be, but if you drop a safe on him, he will open the door from the inside and come staggering out like a drunk. :D

Gotta love teletoon. :dancingbanana:
 
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