What kinda groups at 100 yards with stock m305 with good glass?

sunray said:
"...with good optics..." Won't make any difference if you use poor quality ammo or ammo that your rifle doesn't shoot well. No scope makes any difference to accuracy. It just lets you see the target better. It will not make a poor shooting rifle or one firing poor ammo shoot better.
"...want a plinker to shoot 12" gongs at 500 yards..." Can you see a 12" gong at 500? Ever shoot any rifle at 500?
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500 yards with irons is still easy, on our personal range we have a 12" 500 yard gong and it shows up clear as day though the irons with orange marking paint. Even 1000 yards and irons is no big deal- but you need more rifle than a stock Norc to reliably connect out there. 500 yards really isn't that far, we've shot an SKS to 500 and connected with the gongs once or twice a mag / every 5 rounds or so. I've hit a silhouette at 500 yards with a C96 Mauser pistol too, with witnesses, within one mag. Point is if the OP is happy with hitting the gong every other shot or every third shot, a Norc will likely please him, but he'll need better iron sights, USGI stock would be a good choice. You don't even need super duper ammo at 500 to have fun, again, it's really just not that far yet if you're not trying to win the Match.

Any accomplished marksman can hit a silhouette every time at 500 with a good iron sighted M14. The biggest variable in this entire question is the guy behind the rifle, not the rifle. So while I wouldn't encourage folks to go out and buy Norcs as their long range rifles, he'll have a good time and it'll serve to get him trained up to the point he can make use of a higher quality rifle or build. Good shooting to you.
 
Ardent said:
Any accomplished marksman can hit a silhouette every time at 500 with a good iron sighted M14. The biggest variable in this entire question is the guy behind the rifle, not the rifle. So while I wouldn't encourage folks to go out and buy Norcs as their long range rifles, he'll have a good time and it'll serve to get him trained up to the point he can make use of a higher quality rifle or build. Good shooting to you.
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Great post explaining the niche for the Norc.
 
I shoot consistent 2" groups on mine with Winchester 150gr. It fired that way when I bought it, right off the dealer shelf. That was in 2010 and I've yet to adjust the sights because it shoots so consistently (maybe I got lucky and got a good rifle?) but with Norc ammo, I don't know. I use that stuff for shooting cans and other junk.

I just realized I didn't read the post title. I use iron sights.
 
stoop14 said:
Just wondering what kinda groups these shoot at 100 yards stock with good optics on it
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Not stock: 16.25" barrel
No Glass: Comp M4s with a 2 MOA dot.

100yards%20%281%29.jpg
 
As far as we have noticed the Norinco ammo is fairly consistent and almost the same velocity as DA military surplus. Have not seen any signs of overpressure and has decent accuracy. The price is right and when shooting gongs at 500 that is a factor that should be considered.

My sons Norc is a decent shooter and for the price I know he is more than happy with it.

Chrony results

Norinco...2858/2843/2828

DA 56..2834/2856/2834
 
Was that shooting from a gun vise???
Also I only count 3 rounds. Plus that looks like the South African ammo or is it the Portuguese surplus?
Don't want to say BS but you sure that wasn't a 100 feet? As your red dot is a minimum 2 MOA and most likely a 4 moa red dot so at that distance you should be getting at least 2 moa.
Oh ya way are ya pimping the JTstock again? Thought that you caught a whole bunch of flak from them last time you ran there rig and had issues? Did they finally take your advise and re-work it?
H2O MAN said:
Not stock: 16.25" barrel
No Glass: Comp M4s with a 2 MOA dot.

100yards%20%281%29.jpg
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Answers to all of your questions

Crazyest Canuck said:
Was that shooting from a gun vise???
I rested the front of the rifle on bags while I sat at the bench... I hate shooting from a bench.

Also I only count 3 rounds. Plus that looks like the South African ammo or is it the Portuguese surplus?
You can count... 3 rounds of Portuguese surplus.

Don't want to say BS but you sure that wasn't a 100 feet?
300 feet.

As your red dot is a minimum 2 MOA and most likely a 4 moa red dot so at that distance you should be getting at least 2 moa.
Aimpoint Comp M4s with a 2 MOA dot. I turned the brightness down as low as I could.

Oh ya way are ya pimping the JTstock again?
I'm not pimping their stock, just sharing what I have & can do with it.


Thought that you caught a whole bunch of flak from them last time you ran there rig and had issues?
For some unknown reason, the companies national sales guy took my constructive criticism of the
product personally so he organized a scorched earth dog-pile on me. I survived, and he is gone.

Did they finally take your advise and re-work it?
The manufacturer did follow many of my recommendations, but it should be another two pounds lighter.
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My original range report post 10/05/13:

I made a trip to my local outdoor rifle range (Gun Site Hills) Friday afternoon and fired a few rounds of 147 gr Portuguese NATO surplus from the CQB-16 type SEI in a Gen II Rogue bullpup conversion kit with the Wind Talker sound suppressor attached. The optic is an Aimpoint Comp M4s with a 2 MOA dot. I shot from a bench with the front of the rifle on bags, Andrea 'Di' and her husband spotted for me @ a distance of 100 yards. ... I fired a few rounds to zero the dot, but the groups didn't tighten up until after I turned down the brightness of the dot to the minimum visible brightness.
 
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An out of the box rifle that shoots 3 moa, give or take, would be pretty typical. Set up Hungry style, it is going to do better.
One that delivers consistent 1 1/2 - 2 minutes would be satisfying. Worked with a TRW that was bedded, etc, that would do that with good military ball.
No doubt there are honest consistently 1 moa rifles. Not likely going to happen out of the box.
 
Best I did with my stock shorty was about 3" at 100 using a red dot (Norinco ammo). Was about the same with a Redfield scope. I sold the scope.
 
drifter dave said:
Best I did with my stock shorty was about 3" at 100 using a red dot (Norinco ammo). Was about the same with a Redfield scope. I sold the scope.
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To bad cause this statement tells me that using factory ammo will not achieve optimum accuracy as opposed to hand loading for your rig. As it appears from your statement that shooting wasn't the issue.
 
On a good day I get sub moa but I just sight in all my rifles at 25yards and go hunting works for me
Ammo is to expensive and is hard to get wear I live plus I don't want to spend all day at the range !
 
Best ever was 0.6 MOA but average has been about 2 MOA using handloads.

Recently put on a muzzle brake and it has opened my groups...not happy.
 
my friend's shorty Norinco, out of box, with Federal 180g .308 shot in 3-5 MOA

I am getting a little bit sad, there are tons of thread said that this rifle was an accurate one....but turns out to be just .... a toy....I was hoping to go hunt with it...

seems it need lots of upgrades, at least another $1000 to make it accurate to 2 MOA

with such amount of money put in, why dont we just get an SpringField M1A ??
 
If you had read previous posts on this subject or bothered to look at reviews written that compare stock Nork, tricked out Nork and M1A you would not have been so surprised.
 
[B"]my friend's shorty Norinco, out of box, with Federal 180g .308 shot in 3-5 MOA

I am getting a little bit sad, there are tons of thread said that this rifle was an accurate one....but turns out to be just .... a toy....I was hoping to go hunt with it...

seems it need lots of upgrades, at least another $1000 to make it accurate to 2 MOA

with such amount of money put in, why dont we just get an SpringField M1A ?? "[/B]


A good tune up, as per the stickies, and/or a visit to a clinic will dramatically improve the performance.
A couple of low cost upgrades..OR spring guide and sights will take it a step further.
Handloads will take it a lot further....definitely inside 2 moa unless you got a complete lemon.
It will NEVER be a tack driver, but a lot of pple are getting some rally nice results without dumping a truckload of cash into the gun.
It seems as tho your friend only tried one type of round too...........mine hates anything over 150, 3 to 4 moa with 168 match ammo :( but I'm working on that.
This gun is a hobby and a joy to tinker with.
Lets call it an unpolished turd, but it can be made to shine as bright as a Springfield.
Cheers
 
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