What loadout for canadian infantry?

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Brentn

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Curious to know what the loadout was for canadian infantry for WW1 and WW2.

I'm pretty sure WW1 was the ross rifle, but I have no idea what handgun they would have used.

I also have no idea what was issued to them in WW2 in regards to a rifle/pistol.

Pics/information would be great!

Thank you.
 
Only one i know for sure is the ross rifle. But from what i have read, they were crap to shoot in the trench and most canadians picked up enfields. Umm, being trained sort of with the british in early ww1, could they have been issued british guns?
I remember seeing a lewisgun on Passchendaele or something lol, but i would not use a movie as a historical reference :rolleyes:.
Also read the occasional trench digger would pick up webley's too (only issued to brit officers?).

ww2, we start that unit later on :D.
 
WWI

Ross MkII was issued to the troops, then in France they were issued the MkIII or 1910.
in 1917 they Government replaced the 1901 with the No1MkIII* Lee Enfield.

The revolver was a new century in .455, as well as the webly MkVI and I believe the 1911 in .455 auto??

BTW, Read the true story about the Ross rifle. There were 6 things not working in favor of it.

1) Very tight chamber specs (Match) didn't allow for old or sloppy British ammo to be fired in it.

2) A small burr developed on the bolt head which didn't allow for the bolt to open easily. It was fixed and resolved.

3) The bolt could be on the 1910 be taken apart and assembled incorrectly causing the bolt not to lock and kill the shooter. It was against regs to dissemble the bolt unless you were trained and a armorer. Those that did found out the hard way.

4) The Canadian government wanted Lee Enfields but Britain was unable to take the order and refused the request, Canada then took up Ross to make rifles. So there was resentment that we had done our own thing.

5) The action doesn’t handle dirt all that well, it will jam faster than a Lee Enfield. If the bolt head get dirt on it will not lock.

6) Politics at home of course....never fails

The ross is a very accurate rifle. When in good condition.

WWII

Lee Enfield No1MkIII*
Ross MkIII (reserve home guard)
Lee Enfield Long Branch N4Mk1, No4Mk1*

Pistol was the Inglis Mk1*
Webley Mk IV .380
 
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Officers could purchase their own sidearm and be issued ammo for it from Service sources, which would be .455 Webley. (I don't think they were actually forbidden from bringing a sidearm in another calibre but then they'd have to come up with their own resupply of ammo - "Dear Mother and Father, hope you are all well. Please send some bullets for my revolver..." ) Other ranks whose duties made a handgun appropriate would be issued one, the standard being the Webley revolver Mk.VI. Smith & Wesson made revolvers in .455 and Colt made revolvers and the 1911 automatic in this calibre for Canadian contracts.
 
In WW1 Canadian officers purchased their own sidearm from a group purchase made for them. The Colt 1911 Commercial (blue) was in 45ACP, not 455.

The Colt, S&W and Webley revlovers were all 455.

Here are mine:

BRINGBACKS.jpg


1914Colt1.jpg


1914Colt3.jpg
 
1. Colt built model 1911 in .455, see fourth item in this list:

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=156_159


2. Colt statistics - scroll down to Foreign Service Models, see items 3.) and 4.)

http://www.sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm

This only indicates the .455 versions were for British contracts, not Canadian. Some Canadian officers would have purchased their sidearms after arriving in U.K. so they may have acquired 1911s in .455 over there or picked them up at the front, but my earlier statement suggesting they were shipped to Canada is unsupported.
 
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Brentn said:
A .455 1911? wow, I'd love to see that.
Click to expand...

Here's mine. I've also got all of one round for it. Like all the .455 1911, it's British issued (RAF in this case), not Canadian. The round is kinda neat - looks like a stubby semi-rimmed .45ACP.
PICT0343.jpg

PICT0344.jpg
 
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Ross

Pblatzz said:
WWI

BTW, Read the true story about the Ross rifle. There were 6 things not working in favour of it
Click to expand...

Only SIX things? The sights were complicated and fragile, the charger guides were crappy and didn't work very well, the rifle was too heavy, the bayonet sucked......... In short, the Ross was an accurate POS. Accuracy is not the most important feature in a military rifle. If it were, nobody would use AK's. If the Canadian government had really wanted L-E's, they could have built them. Australia did. Instead, they chose to stick with the Ross even though it was never really satisfactory, and that decision cost some of our soldiers their lives. The Canadian Army in 1914 wore uniforms that were too tight, boots that dissolved in the mud, and the crappy Oliver infantry equipment that had been tested and rejected by the Brits. After a short period of active service, our soldiers were stripping the boots, uniforms, and rifles from dead British soldiers.
 
BUSHMAN79 said:
Only SIX things? The sights were complicated and fragile, the charger guides were crappy and didn't work very well, the rifle was too heavy, the bayonet sucked......... In short, the Ross was an accurate POS. Accuracy is not the most important feature in a military rifle. If it were, nobody would use AK's. If the Canadian government had really wanted L-E's, they could have built them. Australia did. Instead, they chose to stick with the Ross even though it was never really satisfactory, and that decision cost some of our soldiers their lives. The Canadian Army in 1914 wore uniforms that were too tight, boots that dissolved in the mud, and the crappy Oliver infantry equipment that had been tested and rejected by the Brits. After a short period of active service, our soldiers were stripping the boots, uniforms, and rifles from dead British soldiers.
Click to expand...

Like I said there was alot of politics with the rifle. Yeah I forgot the weight of the rifle was a factor as well, left out the lenght of the overall rifle as well, don't froget the 5 rd mag vs the 10 rd.

Canada didn't make the Lee Enfield in Canada because "During the Second Boer War, a minor diplomatic fight broke out between Canada and the United Kingdom, after the latter refused to sell or license the Lee Enfield SMLE design for production in Canada." Quote from wika. The Mk1 Ross rolled out in 1903.
 
2 other strikes against the Ross: The 30.5" barrel was too long for trench warfare and a straight pull action does not have the same leverage for extracting a tight fired case as a camming turnbolt.
 
I read that Sir Charles Ross wanted to switch over to the 280 ross as the Canadian Military round. He was very politically involved in Ottawa. It’s funny how the 1910 action can be modified very easily to accept the 280 length cartridge.
 
BUSHMAN79 said:
In short, the Ross was an accurate POS. Accuracy is not the most important feature in a military rifle. If it were, nobody would use AK's.
Click to expand...

Although the rifle was a POS, I don't think that this statement is valid considering the military doctrine of the time was different from now.
 
The Ross was not a POS. It was a good target rifle as has been proved in competition. It was not a good design for trench warfare. If you took an AK to a target match it would be a POS. Kind of like Sean Connery said in "The Untotouchables". "Never bring a knife to a gunfight."
 
According to Wiki, the Ross is 1 lb lighter than the Enfield?

Also ''Because of its long range accuracy, the Ross rifle continued in use among Allied snipers after it was withdrawn from normal front-line use in Europe. British snipers found the rifle accurate out to 600 yards and more, with only one inherent disadvantage: the Ross accepted only perfectly clean ammunition, totally free of mud and grit, or else it invariably jammed.''
 
The Canadians did issue the M1911, but the problem was convincing the ordnance dept that more than ONE magazine was required. They were still thinking revolver.

As for the sticking of the bolt, yes, that was fixed but by then it was too damm late to inspire any confidence in the troops. Havine to kick the bolt open with an ammo boot when the germans were advancing does not inspire confidence.
 
The Canadians did issue the M1911, but the problem was convincing the ordnance dept that more than ONE magazine was required. They were still thinking revolver.

As for the sticking of the bolt, yes, that was fixed but by then it was too damm late to inspire any confidence in the troops. Having to kick the bolt open with an ammo boot when the germans were advancing does not inspire confidence. The requirement was for a weapon to put round holes in square heads NOT for a target rifle.
 
I did some reading up on the .455 webley 1911 and it is friggen rare. Considered a major collector piece for 1911's and apparently only 10 000 were made by colt! Magazines are stamped .455 on the base plate.

I can't believe some of you guys have these, I'd love to own one. Is that 1000$ price tag accurate? I would think they're worth about 2K even in the same condition as the ones posted.
 
Brentn said:
I did some reading up on the .455 webley 1911 and it is friggen rare. Considered a major collector piece for 1911's and apparently only 10 000 were made by colt! Magazines are stamped .455 on the base plate.

I can't believe some of you guys have these, I'd love to own one. Is that 1000$ price tag accurate? I would think they're worth about 2K even in the same condition as the ones posted.
Click to expand...

There's some really cool Sh_t out there, That's how you get hooked......Hooked bad.
 
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