What makes a 1st Class IPSC Match
- Thread starter 7.62mm
- Start date
On long courses of fire....I see a lot of dedicated start positions...standing on x's etc. you would think that course designers/mds etc would allow for the "freestyle" spirit that is supposed to be present. Having a dedicated start position takes away from that imho...thoughts?
Yeah, that why I like start positions based in props etc. Ipsik and I had a conversation the other day. The one issue we often see is ROs inventing or adding to a start position if it's left too open. I have had walkthroughs I have written where I merely stated "start seated on chair" and left it at that on purpose, only to find out later that certain ROs added in a bunch of extra descriptions. "Back against chair, feet between chair legs" all of a sudden appeared on the last day of the match.
I like freestyle starts like "standing anywhere in the shooting area" or "start holding the rake handle" (rake fixed to ground or prop) and then let the competitor do whatever he/she likes. Some ROs don't seem like they can deal with that and feel that they need to restrict the shooter further even though it was never in the briefing.
I like freestyle starts like "standing anywhere in the shooting area" or "start holding the rake handle" (rake fixed to ground or prop) and then let the competitor do whatever he/she likes. Some ROs don't seem like they can deal with that and feel that they need to restrict the shooter further even though it was never in the briefing.
As much as some folks hate the "gamer" mentality, the fact is that it forces the process of evolution on both sides of the equation (stage designers and competitors). IPSC isn't just about shooting, it's also about thinking and the process of stage doping should be a lateral thinking exercise. If you take all the options out you tend to suck all the fun out of it too and thus limit the possibility of growth.
starting in a specific spot makes sense if you are looking at if from a scenario based stage design. You are then able to shoot them as you see them, even if it's in a way that the MD wanted, at least at the start. Allowing for anywhere in Area A (if area A encompasses all shooting positions) allows for the ultimate in shooter creativity. Both are equally valid start positions in my opinion. Using things like delayed or cross activates swingers/risers/drop turners can be done to force people to certain areas at certain times, but still allow for creativity on what do in between. Forcing people to just go from A to B to C to D to E where the end result really is just about how fast someone moved from each spot bores me after awhile.
And this is exactly what I was getting at. I find when I try to develop a stage, I start putting up barriers, to hinder what I think the shooter will do....turns into a take 2 steps here...shoot...turn right..1 more step shoot. It is much harder...for me anyways...to make an open stage that isn't IDPA like (no offence..I shoot idpa as well). What I am hearing, is that shooters want options, which in my opinion, is actually harder to design and build....I think this ties in well with a desire for shooters to wee more props!
Personally I wish people didn't get their panties in a bunch after every match. I would probably attend a few more every year. It's no fun to hear people whining and groaning about every small detail.
Some fun and less formal matches would be fun. I love the idea of the zombie matches.
Some fun and less formal matches would be fun. I love the idea of the zombie matches.
It is a bit harder but not as much as you might be thinking. We tend to make it harder on ourselves because as stage designers we have a certain scenario in mind and it's easy to think how you would shoot it and then design the course that way. The options are easier once we stop jamming 4 targets in every port and then make it so that some targets are visible from multiple ports. But this is where scenarios help, think up a situation and a location, place the targets with no regard as to how you would shoot it, and do not think of a start position. Just lay out the walls and props first, then situate the targets and their exposures and the last step is putting in a start position.
i have not done any stage design myself but when I help building stages, i find that we have a lot of restriction on the range itself (eg. angle to berm)
This is also a problem....with the cfo's rules....45° into a side berm...steel shrouded....10 metre min for steel.....it does become more difficult to create stages like they have at some US ranges!
Last edited:
I think it's a good tool to have but like any tool it shouldn't be overused. It's handy for example to force shooters to start in a position where they can't see the targets so that they are "surprised" by them a little when they get to the point where the targets are then in view.
I agree that they make the most sense when used in scenarios. If the stage is "shoot the bad guys while sitting at the table" then a starting position with the gun inside a briefcase on the table makes perfect sense.
This may sound too obvious but dedicated start positions do of course help to force the shooter to start uprange and finish downrange of course, so you don't have to worry as much about the shooter overrunning the RO. It's cheap and easy to paint some X's on a fault line in order to facilitate that. What I think gets overused though is hands on the X's, gun unloaded on the barrel, etc.
re: start positions, I hate when it start with heels at x's, the the freak'n x's are close together, so you're not even at a normal standing position and feel oddly balanced, who stands with their knees touching man ?
and then you have to try to take first step forward, again ackwordly... what's wrong with just start in the box, feet any freakin way you want... or just in front of this line....one can stand with feet in the positions of their choice and comfort...
- I don't mind starting unloaded, but not too many times in one match.. once is enough..
- props are always fun, but not ones that could pose an unfair advantage if one can easily fumble the prop...but still fun anyways...but better to be like kicking doors open, pulling rope that opens windows, open box to get gun, all good...
holding item while trying to shoot is still good, cause challenges to shoot one handed....but again this could be easier for one person and harder for someone with smaller hands or whatver....I'm good with these, but just saying it should be item easy for all to handle..
- definately should have movement and more than one way to shoot stage, and with various positions/angles... like shooting downwards, then around barrier, this way that way, etc...
but not the kind where you can see same target from 20 different angles and really messes with you...
- ramps, boats, buildings, stuff like that, way cool.. though some maybe physically challenged to handle such, I think it's part of this fun game and a couple of these in match is great.
- movers / swingers, turners, lots of steel, etc.. all good...
- a good mix of thinkers/ challenging stages and at least 1 hoser stage, is good
- some partial targets, close and far to add challenge ....
- a no shoot paper or white steel plate in front of a target, is mean, but good challenge, so one or 2 of these in larger match is o.k.. the mean and evil stages are just that evil, but an honest challenge, as long as set up to give an honest chance of hitting something..
- having port extremely low that you really can not get into good position to shoot thru, is just F'n dumb and shouldn't be in matches....
- Basically, variety is good.
-And the Round count issues... I'm one that always hopes for highest round count at matches, but YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS, I want these stages to be all the above and great designed stages....just hoping they're desinged properly and happen to have a few extra rounds... like level 2's, if outdoors, I would think all clubs can manage to design great stages with at least 100 rnds... is 100 really alot to ask for an outdoor set up ?
but this is because I as do all of you, love to shoot and more fun........
and yes, i repeat i wish for these extra rounds to be constructively postioned
, so no one post complaing that round count doesn't make a match, cause I KNOW THIS !!!!! if i haven't made that clear...
EESA manages 90+ and 100+ (if memory serves me correct) in some indoor level 2's of past... And they're usually great stages and one of my favorite clubs to shoot matches at...ipsc and other..
so 100 rnds should be easy to set up as great stages with out door space....
wether a few extra targets in stage or by adding one stage..
O.k... so time to go to bed.... I think I'll count rounds, not sheep, to fall asleep
and then you have to try to take first step forward, again ackwordly... what's wrong with just start in the box, feet any freakin way you want... or just in front of this line....one can stand with feet in the positions of their choice and comfort...
- I don't mind starting unloaded, but not too many times in one match.. once is enough..
- props are always fun, but not ones that could pose an unfair advantage if one can easily fumble the prop...but still fun anyways...but better to be like kicking doors open, pulling rope that opens windows, open box to get gun, all good...
holding item while trying to shoot is still good, cause challenges to shoot one handed....but again this could be easier for one person and harder for someone with smaller hands or whatver....I'm good with these, but just saying it should be item easy for all to handle..
- definately should have movement and more than one way to shoot stage, and with various positions/angles... like shooting downwards, then around barrier, this way that way, etc...
but not the kind where you can see same target from 20 different angles and really messes with you...
- ramps, boats, buildings, stuff like that, way cool.. though some maybe physically challenged to handle such, I think it's part of this fun game and a couple of these in match is great.
- movers / swingers, turners, lots of steel, etc.. all good...
- a good mix of thinkers/ challenging stages and at least 1 hoser stage, is good
- some partial targets, close and far to add challenge ....
- a no shoot paper or white steel plate in front of a target, is mean, but good challenge, so one or 2 of these in larger match is o.k.. the mean and evil stages are just that evil, but an honest challenge, as long as set up to give an honest chance of hitting something..
- having port extremely low that you really can not get into good position to shoot thru, is just F'n dumb and shouldn't be in matches....
- Basically, variety is good.
-And the Round count issues... I'm one that always hopes for highest round count at matches, but YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS, I want these stages to be all the above and great designed stages....just hoping they're desinged properly and happen to have a few extra rounds... like level 2's, if outdoors, I would think all clubs can manage to design great stages with at least 100 rnds... is 100 really alot to ask for an outdoor set up ?
but this is because I as do all of you, love to shoot and more fun........
and yes, i repeat i wish for these extra rounds to be constructively postioned
, so no one post complaing that round count doesn't make a match, cause I KNOW THIS !!!!! if i haven't made that clear...EESA manages 90+ and 100+ (if memory serves me correct) in some indoor level 2's of past... And they're usually great stages and one of my favorite clubs to shoot matches at...ipsc and other..
so 100 rnds should be easy to set up as great stages with out door space....
wether a few extra targets in stage or by adding one stage..
O.k... so time to go to bed.... I think I'll count rounds, not sheep, to fall asleep
Last edited:
http://www.2012ipsccanadiannationals.com/documents/Stages.pdf
Hmmmm, no stage names, no scenarios, a lot of six or eight rounds in a port, move to another port then another six or eight rounds. Doesn't seem to pass the PH Racing seal of approval. Then again, it doesn't appear he's going anyway.
http://brandonwildlife.tripod.com/2012ipsccanadiannationalchampionshipregisteredcompetitors/
Hard to make out anything from those drawings, lots of those stages look like they could have options so that you're not just shooting 8 from a port, all depends on what it looks like once it's set up. Hopefully it doesn't end up with just a bunch of ports with 8 rounds or yeah, that will suck huge.
Stage names would be better.
Don't know if they used scenarios or not, some look like they were, but you're not allowed to put it in stage briefing so that comment is kind of pointless.
Since I'm on the Ontario team I would assume I am going, not sure what you are getting at with last comment...just checked the calendar to be sure and yes, it's still April, match is not until August....pretty sure I have time to register...
Stage names would be better.
Don't know if they used scenarios or not, some look like they were, but you're not allowed to put it in stage briefing so that comment is kind of pointless.
Since I'm on the Ontario team I would assume I am going, not sure what you are getting at with last comment...just checked the calendar to be sure and yes, it's still April, match is not until August....pretty sure I have time to register...
Last edited:
