What makes a black rifle an AR Variant?

mildcustom2 said:
TNW got away with it cause they said their 1919's were made from NOS surplus never assembled parts kits therefore making it a " NEW " manufactured/assembled firearms lab according to the firearms lab.

If you assembled your 1919's with a TNW right side plate that is the " controlled " serial numbered part with the TNW name on it why couldn't you have sold it under the existing TNW FRT report and number? Why even send it in for examination.
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The guns we submitted in order to get an FRT# were built on 80% plates as at that time we could not get export permits approved for anything related to either gun. Not sure if that has relaxed in the last 2 years or not by DOS.
We engraved them, the plan was to replicate basically what TNW did on the prototypes. I have access to hundreds of basically NIB guns in Europe so the plan was to make plates, bolts and triggers here and replace the side plates ala TNW.
When we got the word from the lab that they were deemed prohib, Bill Etter was kind enough to tell me that IF we made all 5 sides of the reciever they would be approved as NR based on being a "new" receiver rather than a F/A that is converted to S/A.
Although I do not like the decision, I can kind of see the logic behind it. When we get time we will start making the other 4 sides of the receiver as I have a TON of capital tied up in parts already.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Fixed it for you Ben:p

This is a sad truth, but it is exactly what we were told a few years ago when we submitted a lower that was designed to fit the Safety Harbor 50 cal upper with "SIGNIFICANT" modifications being required. The lab rat managed to discharge (fortunately or not) just a primed casing after the duct taped an AR upper to what we submitted. The fact that the bolt would have been nicely captured in the shooters teeth if it were fired with a live round of ammo was not relevant it seems.

Most recently our versions of the 1919 and M2 were classified as prohibs due to the fact that we only replaced 1 side plate, the bolt and trigger assemblies, EXACTLY the same as what TNW does on the NON -restricted guns that are allowed for sale here.
The fact is we used a TNW sideplate, trigger and bolt, so the Einsteins declared ours prohib but the IDENTICAL gun made or more correctly assembled in a foreign country as NON restricted.

It appears that in the government stupidity really knows no boundaries.:mad:
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That's what I was referring too, but what I didn't know was that it was just a primed casing!!! Jesus H Christ!!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
The guns we submitted in order to get an FRT# were built on 80% plates as at that time we could not get export permits approved for anything related to either gun. Not sure if that has relaxed in the last 2 years or not by DOS.
We engraved them, the plan was to replicate basically what TNW did on the prototypes. I have access to hundreds of basically NIB guns in Europe so the plan was to make plates, bolts and triggers here and replace the side plates ala TNW.
When we got the word from the lab that they were deemed prohib, Bill Etter was kind enough to tell me that IF we made all 5 sides of the reciever they would be approved as NR based on being a "new" receiver rather than a F/A that is converted to S/A.
Although I do not like the decision, I can kind of see the logic behind it. When we get time we will start making the other 4 sides of the receiver as I have a TON of capital tied up in parts already.
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No problems getting anything belt fed into the country from the US as far as I know now. All export bans were lifted. My TNW 1919 came from down south 6 months ago.


I'm curious if one manufactured all new receivers would they try to come up with some BS ruling that more than 5 rounds is not permitted in a new receiver/production 1919? They seem to like playing games like this.

Ahem!!! Looking for a couple .308 1919 barrels by the way. ;)
 
mildcustom2 said:
No problems getting anything belt fed into the country from the US as far as I know now. All export bans were lifted. My TNW 1919 came from down south 6 months ago.


I'm curious if one manufactured all new receivers would they try to come up with some BS ruling that more than 5 rounds is not permitted in a new receiver/production 1919? They seem to like playing games like this.

Ahem!!! Looking for a couple .308 1919 barrels by the way. ;)
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Interesting thought.
As I understand the law, the actual feed device is the belt, and that was clearly designed before 1946.
So they should not be able to pull a fast one like you describe.
 
tootall said:
Interesting thought.
As I understand the law, the actual feed device is the belt, and that was clearly designed before 1946.
So they should not be able to pull a fast one like you describe.
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Actually it's not just the belt that's the determining factor as explained in an email to me from the firearms lab. It's because the design of the firearm and cartridge pre dates 1945 that makes it ok. Now since the requirement from the firearms lab is that an all new receiver is manufactured and the original design of the firearm was full auto they can actually turn around and say the design is " new " and does not fall under this classification.

They can make and break there own rules as they go along. As someone that was a 1919 owner this is one question that has never been asked. " Is it legal to run more than five rounds in a semi auto 1919 version ? "
 
MIRAMICHIER said:
I thought an AR variant had something to do with the Charging Handle,But you what thought did ???
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At this point in this discussion of firearms lab BS, I think it comes down to a determination of whatever they are feeling with no set guideline for classification. It needs to change but to date nobody is willing to challenge it.
 
AR upper or lower makes an AR varient. Furniture is just furniture, it that was all it took to make a varient than my Rem870 is a varient with its M4 furniture, and so is a Mossberg MVP since it uses AR mags.
But they're not. The reciever is the heart and soul not the furniture. Saddly that makes a certain crossbow a restricted weapon as it uses an AR lower as part of its fireing group.....but a varient does not it make.
 
I believe it's the shoulder things (the ones that go up). It's an AR variant because it's easier for them that way.
 
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