What makes a black rifle an AR Variant?
- Thread starter mildcustom2
- Start date
mildcustom2
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
The big point to make here is that with the death of the long gun registry a Canadian manufacture would no longer have to send a non restricted class firearm into the firearms lab for classification. They can manufacture a firearm that they believe meets the requirements of non restricted and start selling it right away. An FRT number was need to classify long guns for registration purposes in the past or in the cases of all long guns available to us on the current market an FRT number is need for importing firearms into Canada for selling.
So if we had a real and I mean 100% real Canadianan manufacture actually build something that isn't just another AR15 upper/lower receiver or 870 knock off we could have a lot of different rifles or shotguns in Canada that by the time the firearms lab got there act together there would be thousands already in people's hands.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
The problem with this is that IF someone like us, a 100% REAL Canadian manufacturing company designed and built a prototype of a semi automatic rifle, like we have and are now into year 3 of waiting for legal classification, just went into production of said firearm, the RCMP would have us closed down in a heartbeat. THEY are the only ones who can decide whether or not ANY firearm made by anyone is legal for sale or not in Canada.
To just start selling a non classified firearm is totally illegal in Canada, essentially if 1 were to go that route it may as well be full auto, suppressed and look like anything. The cost would have to be very high as it would be a 1 time gig and then flee the country.
How many guys would pony up say $50000.00 per gun so that by selling a mere 100 guns those of us in the company could live the rest of our lives in exile as fugitives?
Having a SIGNIFICANT amount of time and investment in my company I am not willing to risk absolutely everything and most likely end up in jail (I am waaay to pretty for that) to try and play THAT game.
There is NO black letter on paper that determines what makes a restricted or non restricted rifle, it is all left up to the discretion of the lab rats within the RCMP. This system is only marginally better than Kim Campbell and Alan Rock's method of looking in gun books and putting a red X through the photos of guns they found to look scary.
Shanks4300
Regular
- Location
- Winnipeg, mb
This is it. If you can put a different upper on it, restricted.
- Location
- Lethbridge
Not so. My M&P15-22 cannot accept an AR upper as the dimensions are just slightly (and deliberately) different. As well there's no buffer tube, so there is no way to #### it even if you duct taped an AR upper onto it. The mag well will not accept a STANAG mag.
My M&P15-22 uses the same trigger group, safety selector, mag release, bolt release, and pistol grip as an AR. My JR Carbine uses the same trigger group, safety selector, and pistol grip as an AR. Both are blowback operated. The picatinny accessories all fit both of course. Handguards will also fit both, sometimes requiring a bit of modification and effort.
The M&P15-22 is restricted, and the JR Carbine is not. Go figure...
Please post the law or regulation that would make it illegal.
"...My opinion doesn't matter..." Ditto. And you don't either. The RCMP, who should not be allowed to make such decisions, think if it looks like a duck, it's a duck. No walking or quacking necessary. Then, if they're telling the truth that day, they'll say, "Because we said so."
"...Let's see some real info..." You need to read and learn the law. The opinions of shooters don't matter.
"...Let's see some real info..." You need to read and learn the law. The opinions of shooters don't matter.
mildcustom2
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
It's not that its illegal now with the death of the LGR its that once they found out what your doing they'd pull your manufactures license therefore making anything you make and sell illegal at that point. It's there way of controlling you indirectly. If you believe its illegal as you say then please provide documentation.
It's too bad your rifle has been at the firearms lab for 3 years considering the current backlog is 18 months. Probably time to get out the shovel and burry it alongside the other firearms that are victims of the RCMP's hidden agenda at the firearms lab. It really is a shame they treat a all Canadian company like this.
As for what makes a firearm restricted or non restricted its in black and white in the criminal code. It's just that the lab makes up all the other BS as they go along which proves the point they have there own hidden agenda.
Last edited:
mildcustom2
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
You kind come off like a sheep following the lambs to slaughter.
Maybe you should try contributing something worthwhile to be part of a discussion about a solution instead a part of the problem.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
You "may" be correct that with the LGR kinda sort of abolished, that it may take time for the government to know and react. Nothing new has come from the RCMP lab on whether all "newly" designed or not previously imported firearms must be submitted for examination prior to sale, so I would only assume that they still expect this to be the drill. We had to provide manufacturers specs on the Ashbury 50 cal we just imported PRIOR to getting an IIC. As it is a bolt action rifle and obviously falls into the NR class, we did not have to submit it for examination. The FRT #s are still applied to all firearms last I checked. I know several other UN influenced countries are working on securing data from the FRT system for their own integration should they manage to get a registry started in their countries, so that part is still alive and well.
I guess it really boils down to how much a company wants to play the game of risk. For me to risk not only everything I own and have worked so long to create as well as the livelihood of the guys who work here, not to mention jail, it is just not worth potentially incurring the wrath of the government.
If money were no object, we could get all of our new designs into production and wait for a reaction then let the courts figure it out over the next several years, however........
mildcustom2
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
It's a discussion about figuring a way through the problem instead of bending over and taking it in the rear all the time. It's about trying to do something for Canadian firearm owners across the country. As myself and Alberta Tactical Rifle are discussing there is actually a means through it now with the long gun registry gone, wether its a practical one or not.
mildcustom2
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
To me it's more of a loophole that's been created as a result of the long gun registry being squashed......... Sort of ( Quebec ) Since its been gone it has kinda left the RCMP stunned as what to do now.
I agree that a manufacture making a rifle and selling it may not be the brightest move. Not only would it most likely end in the manufacture being shut down permanently and in the hole financially but it would be difficult marketing a firearm to Canadian firearm owners without a FRT number and Report. Canadian firearm owners are too afraid to buy something without a piece of paper " Guaranteeing " it's legal. Even though that piece of paper can be changed at any time.
All in all a great idea politically to give the system a kick in the nuts but the potential success rate is extremely low. However I do appreciate your contribution to a open discussion here.
I agree that a manufacture making a rifle and selling it may not be the brightest move. Not only would it most likely end in the manufacture being shut down permanently and in the hole financially but it would be difficult marketing a firearm to Canadian firearm owners without a FRT number and Report. Canadian firearm owners are too afraid to buy something without a piece of paper " Guaranteeing " it's legal. Even though that piece of paper can be changed at any time.
All in all a great idea politically to give the system a kick in the nuts but the potential success rate is extremely low. However I do appreciate your contribution to a open discussion here.
The fact that the upper cannot be cocked or the magwell won't accept a mag is irrelevant to the RCMP. If they can get a round into the chamber and then attach the upper to the lower in any old way (and that includes by duct tape) and get the round to go BANG while on the lower then the lower is restricted. I've seen them do this. Its stupid and we all know that but then most of the rules are stupid so why not go full retard with the rules?
It doesn't really matter what you stick on an AR lower, the lower itself is still restricted.
- Location
- Lethbridge
The fact that the upper cannot be cocked or the magwell won't accept a mag is irrelevant to the RCMP. If they can get a round into the chamber and then attach the upper to the lower in any old way (and that includes by duct tape) and get the round to go BANG while on the lower then the lower is restricted. I've seen them do this. Its stupid and we all know that but then most of the rules are stupid so why not go full retard with the rules?
It doesn't really matter what you stick on an AR lower, the lower itself is still restricted.
Even if the lower is destroyed in the process? I'm pretty sure that the plastic lower would be in several pieces after such a silly thing was done to it.
Rhetorical question, by the way.
Even if the lower is destroyed in the process? I'm pretty sure that the plastic lower would be in several pieces after such a silly thing was done to it.
Rhetorical question, by the way.
Yup.
Does it really matter what happens to the lower? All the RCMP lab rats are concerned about is whether or not you can make-shift a .50 cal rifle and commit a crime with it because as we all know, we are ALL criminal-in-waiting, lurking at every single opportunity to do harm to others (the PAL, RPAL, Exams, personal and reference interviews, range membership course and exams, storage and transportation laws and mag capacity restrictions just to name a few are just for show and don't serve a single purpose in screening criminal OUT of firearm ownership).
So yeah, if you can duct tape or hot glue it together and it goes bang, it'll be restricted.
Last edited:
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
Fixed it for you Ben
This is a sad truth, but it is exactly what we were told a few years ago when we submitted a lower that was designed to fit the Safety Harbor 50 cal upper with "SIGNIFICANT" modifications being required. The lab rat managed to discharge (fortunately or not) just a primed casing after the duct taped an AR upper to what we submitted. The fact that the bolt would have been nicely captured in the shooters teeth if it were fired with a live round of ammo was not relevant it seems.
Most recently our versions of the 1919 and M2 were classified as prohibs due to the fact that we only replaced 1 side plate, the bolt and trigger assemblies, EXACTLY the same as what TNW does on the NON -restricted guns that are allowed for sale here.
The fact is we used a TNW sideplate, trigger and bolt, so the Einsteins declared ours prohib but the IDENTICAL gun made or more correctly assembled in a foreign country as NON restricted.
It appears that in the government stupidity really knows no boundaries.
mildcustom2
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
Fixed it for you Ben
This is a sad truth, but it is exactly what we were told a few years ago when we submitted a lower that was designed to fit the Safety Harbor 50 cal upper with "SIGNIFICANT" modifications being required. The lab rat managed to discharge (fortunately or not) just a primed casing after the duct taped an AR upper to what we submitted. The fact that the bolt would have been nicely captured in the shooters teeth if it were fired with a live round of ammo was not relevant it seems.
Most recently our versions of the 1919 and M2 were classified as prohibs due to the fact that we only replaced 1 side plate, the bolt and trigger assemblies, EXACTLY the same as what TNW does on the NON -restricted guns that are allowed for sale here.
The fact is we used a TNW sideplate, trigger and bolt, so the Einsteins declared ours prohib but the IDENTICAL gun made or more correctly assembled in a foreign country as NON restricted.
It appears that in the government stupidity really knows no boundaries.
TNW got away with it cause they said their 1919's were made from NOS surplus never assembled parts kits therefore making it a " NEW " manufactured/assembled firearms lab according to the firearms lab.
If you assembled your 1919's with a TNW right side plate that is the " controlled " serial numbered part with the TNW name on it why couldn't you have sold it under the existing TNW FRT report and number? Why even send it in for examination.
