- Location
- Southern ON.
Many items intended/marketed to meet a tactical need can have a non-tactical use.
What makes a shotgun tactical?
- Thread starter CNADNSL8-5
- Start date
Many items intended/marketed to meet a tactical need can have a non-tactical use.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What? you really don't know? Well,according to NINE,"It makes it more Deadly."
So is this a for real thread or just a pissing match?
"a non tactical use"...
Then why do you have it? If it is a specialized system for a specific mission it doesnt get used for, or is not desgned to be an "all rounder."?
"Tactical = Designed for specific use or mission...."
If you are choosing something to USE, to ACCOMPLISH a TASK, then what you choose is based on the TACTICS you decide on TO COMPLETE OBJECTIVE.
If it is specially designed for a specific purpose, it is a tactical firearm.
If you are using it as just a shot gun... It is just that... A shotgun....
A Tactical Rifle in a safe is not a non-tactical use. It is a safe queen.... Ok, you can be a collector. Sure. But showing off your "badass" stuff, is nowhere near as impressive as showing your badass SKILLS.
We were trying to encourage dialog and education, as well as thought around "what makes your picture tactical..."
People seem to buy gear to solve problems that don't exist, or simply to be cool...
Why shorten a barrel, which many would say shortens range and accuracy, but then add an expensive optic... Designed to give you more range and accuracy... WTF? What is your tactic?
That is not "tactical". That is jewellery.
Ok, Ill post it:
"Tactical = Designed for specific use or mission....
Tactic is a specific action chosen to move forward towards a strategic objective.
"BLUE" or ORANGE colored Less Lethal Shotgun, colored that way so officer/user knows it is and is only to be used with Less Lethal Munitions, and not loaded with Slugs...
Still tactical... Not Black.
Shortened Remmy 870 with pistol grip, and custom serrated standoff barrel, in custom scabbard. Carried by SWAT entry team breacher to destroy hardware fixing a door, blocking a path to a goal.
Chosen, designed, customized, and loaded for a specific mission and USE.
That is what makes it tactical...
Hell if you modified it to f#ck up rabbits, shoot rhinos, or spray paint... And are using it for such I would loved to hear how and why. Or you are training 3 gun, home protection, or whatever.
But the tactical aspect is shown by why you chose the platform and how you use, it, or intend to use it IMHO. Eg. Stainless... reflective = Not tactical by common definition.
But if you say I bought it to be highly visible to the stalker across the street, or to keep on your sailboat... It at least shows some thought.
Unless the question is what is the best tactic to make it look cool?"
Then why do you have it? If it is a specialized system for a specific mission it doesnt get used for, or is not desgned to be an "all rounder."?
"Tactical = Designed for specific use or mission...."
If you are choosing something to USE, to ACCOMPLISH a TASK, then what you choose is based on the TACTICS you decide on TO COMPLETE OBJECTIVE.
If it is specially designed for a specific purpose, it is a tactical firearm.
If you are using it as just a shot gun... It is just that... A shotgun....
A Tactical Rifle in a safe is not a non-tactical use. It is a safe queen.... Ok, you can be a collector. Sure. But showing off your "badass" stuff, is nowhere near as impressive as showing your badass SKILLS.
We were trying to encourage dialog and education, as well as thought around "what makes your picture tactical..."
People seem to buy gear to solve problems that don't exist, or simply to be cool...
Why shorten a barrel, which many would say shortens range and accuracy, but then add an expensive optic... Designed to give you more range and accuracy... WTF? What is your tactic?
That is not "tactical". That is jewellery.
Ok, Ill post it:
"Tactical = Designed for specific use or mission....
Tactic is a specific action chosen to move forward towards a strategic objective.
"BLUE" or ORANGE colored Less Lethal Shotgun, colored that way so officer/user knows it is and is only to be used with Less Lethal Munitions, and not loaded with Slugs...
Still tactical... Not Black.
Shortened Remmy 870 with pistol grip, and custom serrated standoff barrel, in custom scabbard. Carried by SWAT entry team breacher to destroy hardware fixing a door, blocking a path to a goal.
Chosen, designed, customized, and loaded for a specific mission and USE.
That is what makes it tactical...
Hell if you modified it to f#ck up rabbits, shoot rhinos, or spray paint... And are using it for such I would loved to hear how and why. Or you are training 3 gun, home protection, or whatever.
But the tactical aspect is shown by why you chose the platform and how you use, it, or intend to use it IMHO. Eg. Stainless... reflective = Not tactical by common definition.
But if you say I bought it to be highly visible to the stalker across the street, or to keep on your sailboat... It at least shows some thought.
Unless the question is what is the best tactic to make it look cool?"
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Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
From,yyyyy
"But the tactical aspect is shown by how you use, it, or intend to use it."
There you said it your self
It's not the tool,but how it's used.,"My job does not define who I'am."
That's why it should be "COMBAT" or "FIGHTING" shotgun.
"But the tactical aspect is shown by how you use, it, or intend to use it."
There you said it your self
It's not the tool,but how it's used.,"My job does not define who I'am."
That's why it should be "COMBAT" or "FIGHTING" shotgun.
- Location
- Southern ON.
yyyy, that is why I wanted you to post that. It brings up an iteresting definition of tactical.
non tactical use: so if i use a short barrel and short LOP stock for hunting because its more maneuverable and easeir to shoulder is it tactical or not? Is it still tactical because it is being used for a specific hunting solution?
Why can't tactical also include adaptability?
Here are the spec on my Shotgun: thought out and has perpose
Hogue short LOP-easier to shoulder with hunting clothing/jacket, more maneuverable.
Shorter barrel-more maneuverable, easier to move through the bush/tight places.
Side saddle-easy access to change load type if needed, keep ammo as close to the firearm as possible when stored for home defense.
Mag extension-increased capacity for defense and is easily plugged/removed for hunting.
3.5 chamber-versitile for hunting, can handle any 12ga ammo available.
Rem choke-versitile for hunting, defense and breaching if you are trapped, (ex: door blocked by debris from storm.) reduce recoil or muzzle rise.
Bead sight-simple no fuss
Sling-does the job it was intended for.
12ga 870-common, servicable, simple operation
non tactical use: so if i use a short barrel and short LOP stock for hunting because its more maneuverable and easeir to shoulder is it tactical or not? Is it still tactical because it is being used for a specific hunting solution?
Why can't tactical also include adaptability?
Here are the spec on my Shotgun: thought out and has perpose
Hogue short LOP-easier to shoulder with hunting clothing/jacket, more maneuverable.
Shorter barrel-more maneuverable, easier to move through the bush/tight places.
Side saddle-easy access to change load type if needed, keep ammo as close to the firearm as possible when stored for home defense.
Mag extension-increased capacity for defense and is easily plugged/removed for hunting.
3.5 chamber-versitile for hunting, can handle any 12ga ammo available.
Rem choke-versitile for hunting, defense and breaching if you are trapped, (ex: door blocked by debris from storm.) reduce recoil or muzzle rise.
Bead sight-simple no fuss
Sling-does the job it was intended for.
12ga 870-common, servicable, simple operation
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yes and no ..
you dont need a breeching/standoff attachment to blow out a lock on a door..
a 28" extremaII would yield the same results as a 12" 870 .. the 12" is probably just more practical because its smaller.. i wouldnt want to cart around that pike of a shtgun that the extrema is if i was clearing rooms
what i was trying to say was.. to me.. its how the weapon is used which makes it tactical or not ..
: see my example in my previous post
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All firearms are tactical!
i neglected to mention in my post that in my eyes the word tactical should also really only apply to combat/military/LEO/Contractor type situations where the weapon is being used in anger.
i wouldnt call hunting a tactical situation, in the percieved sense of the word 'tactical'
i wouldnt call hunting a tactical situation, in the percieved sense of the word 'tactical'
Hmmm. Well, quickly the 28" extrema would likely put you crouched infront of the door if shooting upper hinges, and not allow you to shoot downward on the lock/hinge to prevent injury to anyone inside without being 28" above the hinge and then accommodating for the stock etc. This is why they are cut down.
They are also carried on an officers rig, and stowed and transitioned from once the breach is accomplished. You don't want to crawl though a window with the extrema when you want to be rifle up with your AR.
Once the breacher hits the door, optimally another "stick" has made entry on the room while the breacher/s transition weapons or pull security etc.
That is why the "tactical" breaching shotgun is not used to clear the rooms. Mission and task designed.
Sure you might "improvise" if some f*&ker is there when you take the door you might blast him. But you have 4 brothers in masks with Deftec "Distraction Devices" and AR's about to go to bring the noise to those waiting inside... They have "tactical weapons" design for room clearing. So get out of the way with your breaching shotgun, as it, and your job is done...
The standoff, though I have never used one, is supposed to dig into the door a bit and help you place your shot.
So the short handles and barrels, as well as rounds, are specifically chosen for the act of breaching the door. The frangible round etc isn't gonna help with a moose at 50 yrds I dont think. But a slug would! But you dont choose the slug for breaching becasue it may over penetrate into a lower floor or room in a wood structure.... Blah Blah.
The design, round, accessories are customized for the mission...
- Location
- Southern ON.
We're forgetting the 2 1/2 foot long bayonet and the sling that holds 250 extra rounds. It has to have at least half a dozen rails, You have to bolt the 2million candlepower Q beam somewhere.
A bayonet on a shotgun is not a new idea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shotgun
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
8 letters followed by a space in front of the word "shotgun".
my "tactical" shotgun's purpose is for easy in and out of various vehicles and equipment and rapid engagement of multiple close range fast moving targets... also comes in handy for removing low hanging branches so they dont scuff up the paint on the excavator.
if you cant hit a fig.11 with a slug and bead sight at 100M then you should stick to a rifle
isnt that what i said ?
"i wouldnt want to cart around.." etc
i was just trying to say that in my understanding of the word, and in that situation ( blowing door locks ) the extrema could be a tactical weapon
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
rebar cutting rounds... work good on 1/2" round bar used in security grilles, helps get the muzzle on the bars but dont think any of the ERT guys in Canada use them... good thing LEO has an awsome dental plan because they really rattle your cage... S&J has some and i'm sure BadBoyBeeson will chime in here for there suited applications.
i have never seen a need to use a standoff for anything other then giveing someone a stiff poke to get them moving... but build a better mouse trap and....
- Location
- Southern ON.
So based on some of the points you made, does my response reasonably answer your question? I am asking in all seriousness, not trying to be an ass.
8 letters followed by a space in front of the word "shotgun".
my "tactical" shotgun's purpose is for easy in and out of various vehicles and equipment and rapid engagement of multiple close range fast moving targets... also comes in handy for removing low hanging branches so they dont scuff up the paint on the excavator.
if you cant hit a fig.11 with a slug and bead sight at 100M then you should stick to a rifle
A couple of questions for you. What type of targets are you engaging that occur in multiples at close range and are fast moving, or are you simply providing a scenario to justify your shotgun?
I agree that one should be capable of making solid hits at 100 with a slug to be considered proficient in their use. However, if your situation requires 100 yard shots why are you using a smooth bore, bead sighted heavy recoiling, low mag capacity shotgun? Wrong tool for the job, try a rifle. Even though your shotgun is capable of such work it is not an ideal setup nor the most proficient for such a situation. Hence, its tactical setup is not inline with the tactic required for the situation. Your shotgun is not very tactical.
TDC
It seems you might be able to answere the question with a question. What causes a hammer to be a hammer?
I think any use intended or otherwise makes a tool what it is. A hammer can be a hammer if used to hammer nails or it can be a doorstop if used to hold open a door.
A shotgun can be whatever the individual who owns it wants it to be when using it in a specific manner. There are certain aspects to the design which lend the shotgun to certain activities ie. longer barell for skeet or clay shooting but that does not exclude other activities like hunting and/or "home defense".
What might be benficial to one shotgun owner might not to another.
Just my .02 cents.
I think any use intended or otherwise makes a tool what it is. A hammer can be a hammer if used to hammer nails or it can be a doorstop if used to hold open a door.
A shotgun can be whatever the individual who owns it wants it to be when using it in a specific manner. There are certain aspects to the design which lend the shotgun to certain activities ie. longer barell for skeet or clay shooting but that does not exclude other activities like hunting and/or "home defense".
What might be benficial to one shotgun owner might not to another.
Just my .02 cents.
