What makes a shotgun tactical?
- Thread starter CNADNSL8-5
- Start date
If the equipment you employ allows you to follow your doctrine (tactics) more efficiently....it could be considered tactical.
We had this disscussion because of all the tactical this and that and came up with the above explaination.
- Location
- Southern ON.
I asked so that people would be specific with their answers. I was trying to encourage the debate while also learning. Your answer is better then a simple response of "use".
I know why we had this disscussion. I started this thread because of that disscussion. I wanted a proper place for it to be disscussed. The picture thread was not the right place.
I glad we have managed to aviod a pissing match (so far). There is a useful disscussion of tactical and tactics.
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Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There are three reasons I will never be comfortable pointing a gun at "anyone" on my property.
The first is that it is a criminal act without a lawful excuse and someone just being on your property doesn't qualify.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_III-gb:s_85//en?noCookie
The second reason is that having more than once gone out to investigate an "unfamiliar noise" at night it is a stressful situation that tends to generate some adrenalin. Everybody's calm, cool and collected at the keyboard but at night when you don't know what's happening is different. Pointing a gun at a target that is you haven't identified in that situation is extremely foolish.
The third reason is that you don't know what's out there. You probably aren't familiar with the name Bernard Bastien. He was a rural resident in Ontario who went outside with a gun only to be shot to death by an OPP tactical team that was at the wrong address.
It works like this. Spotlight in one hand, shotgun pointed at the ground in the other with the light switched on. If shooting is necessary then dump the spotlight and bring up the gun. It's a little slower but it's far safer for all concerned than pointing a loaded gun at a target you cannot identify in a stressful situation. And the light I use isn't the dinky little Streamlight on my shotgun but a 3 million candle power spotlight that lights up the night. On two occasions tresspassers departed rapidly when simply caught in the beam.
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
read this, it will help you....
xavierthoughts.########.com/2005/09/home-defense-shotguns.html
xavierthoughts.########.com/2005/09/home-defense-shotguns.html
There are three reasons I will never be comfortable pointing a gun at "anyone" on my property.
The first is that it is a criminal act without a lawful excuse and someone just being on your property doesn't qualify.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_III-gb:s_85//en?noCookie
The second reason is that having more than once gone out to investigate an "unfamiliar noise" at night it is a stressful situation that tends to generate some adrenalin. Everybody's calm, cool and collected at the keyboard but at night when you don't know what's happening is different. Pointing a gun at a target that is you haven't identified in that situation is extremely foolish.
The third reason is that you don't know what's out there. You probably aren't familiar with the name Bernard Bastien. He was a rural resident in Ontario who went outside with a gun only to be shot to death by an OPP tactical team that was at the wrong address.
It works like this. Spotlight in one hand, shotgun pointed at the ground in the other with the light switched on. If shooting is necessary then dump the spotlight and bring up the gun. It's a little slower but it's far safer for all concerned than pointing a loaded gun at a target you cannot identify in a stressful situation. And the light I use isn't the dinky little Streamlight on my shotgun but a 3 million candle power spotlight that lights up the night. On two occasions tresspassers departed rapidly when simply caught in the beam.
Some pretty good advice.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There are three reasons I will never be comfortable pointing a gun at "anyone" on my property.
The first is that it is a criminal act without a lawful excuse and someone just being on your property doesn't qualify.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_III-gb:s_85//en?noCookie
The second reason is that having more than once gone out to investigate an "unfamiliar noise" at night it is a stressful situation that tends to generate some adrenalin. Everybody's calm, cool and collected at the keyboard but at night when you don't know what's happening is different. Pointing a gun at a target that is you haven't identified in that situation is extremely foolish.
The third reason is that you don't know what's out there. You probably aren't familiar with the name Bernard Bastien. He was a rural resident in Ontario who went outside with a gun only to be shot to death by an OPP tactical team that was at the wrong address.
It works like this. Spotlight in one hand, shotgun pointed at the ground in the other with the light switched on. If shooting is necessary then dump the spotlight and bring up the gun. It's a little slower but it's far safer for all concerned than pointing a loaded gun at a target you cannot identify in a stressful situation. And the light I use isn't the dinky little Streamlight on my shotgun but a 3 million candle power spotlight that lights up the night. On two occasions tresspassers departed rapidly when simply caught in the beam.
+1, most bad guys are not there for a fight,and it's always better to not to have to use your weapon.
And if its not someone you want to shoot,well, for me,I 'd chance that extra time it takes to shoulder my weapon to be safe before rather then sorry later, That's my mind set.
There are three reasons I will never be comfortable pointing a gun at "anyone" on my property.
The first is that it is a criminal act without a lawful excuse and someone just being on your property doesn't qualify.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_III-gb:s_85//en?noCookie
The second reason is that having more than once gone out to investigate an "unfamiliar noise" at night it is a stressful situation that tends to generate some adrenalin. Everybody's calm, cool and collected at the keyboard but at night when you don't know what's happening is different. Pointing a gun at a target that is you haven't identified in that situation is extremely foolish.
The third reason is that you don't know what's out there. You probably aren't familiar with the name Bernard Bastien. He was a rural resident in Ontario who went outside with a gun only to be shot to death by an OPP tactical team that was at the wrong address.
It works like this. Spotlight in one hand, shotgun pointed at the ground in the other with the light switched on. If shooting is necessary then dump the spotlight and bring up the gun. It's a little slower but it's far safer for all concerned than pointing a loaded gun at a target you cannot identify in a stressful situation. And the light I use isn't the dinky little Streamlight on my shotgun but a 3 million candle power spotlight that lights up the night. On two occasions tresspassers departed rapidly when simply caught in the beam.
I'm well aware of the "crime" committed by pointing a firearm at someone. My first concern is investigating the threat(s) and surviving the encounter. Concerning oneself with ignorant laws should be the last thought. How anyone can prove you pointed your firearm at them(unless you shot them) is anyones guess. Your word or the word of some scumbag who was trespassing or stealing.
If you want to handicap yourself by filling both hands with tools be my guest. I can assure you your chances of surviving should the scumbag be armed are slim. Its clear that the mindset of most in this thread is seriously lacking as are the tactics. If you are not prepared to engage a threat with lethal force then don't take the shotgun with you to investigate. If your skills are lacking such that pointing a loaded firearm at someone could somehow translate into you triggering a round then seek professional training or leave the gun in the safe. If you're betting on the scumbag(s) in question to flee so you don't have to engage them, your mindset is lacking. Carry on with your ill formed plans and poser piece shotguns, I'm sure you'll do fine.
TDC
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- Location
- Vancouver, BC
this is where the light comes into play ^^^^^
It's no surprise that once on the losing side of the discussion that you'd resort to insults and cheap shots.
You are still unable to reconcile the contradiction between your posts on "safety" in one thread and your willingness to point a loaded gun at a "anyone or anything" on your property even if you haven't identified what you are pointing the gun at.
As for "mindset" mine is at the very least consistent. The gun doesn't get used as a flashlight and it's not pointed at anything I'm not willing to destroy. To recommend otherwise is to promote a criminal code violation and an unsafe gun handling practice that could get someone killed if that rustling in the bushes is a tactical team with the wrong address.
BigDotGlock
Regular
With logic like that coming from members of the firearms community, it's no wonder our overlords will never recognize our right to self defense. You might as well say anytime you pick up a gun it could go off.
If you'll bother to re-read some of TDC's posts, he puts alot of emphasis on TRAINING. With proper high stress training under your belt you should be able to point a gun at a potential threat without it mysteriously going off.
As for the criminal code violation, Please sir! I'm about as worried about violating the criminal code by pointing a firearm at an intruder as they are about breaking the law by breaking into my house at O-dark-thirty. I'd rather live to get charged with that BS violation than risk the alternatives.
If you really can't see that TDC is talking about the SAFEST (for all parties) and most EFFECTIVE method of dealing with an intruder, you really do need to re-evaluate your mindset on the issue. Have you ever taken any force on force training, or any real firearms training for that matter? (the safety course does NOT count) In the time it takes you to illuminate and try to assess a subject, circumstances can change drastically, especially at close range your refusal to point a gun in the direction of the threat is tactically flawed.
Anyway this discussion is pointless, this is Canada after all. We have no right to self defense because only legal gun owners kill people, nothing else bad ever happens, besides the police are always no more than two seconds from your side.
No, what he is saying that he will point his gun at "anyone or anything" on his property. What is he also saying is that he will use his gunlight as a flashlight to determine IF there is a threat and in doing so cover the target with his gun before it's indentified.
I have pointed my gun in the direction of a threat and am prepared to do so again but only when it's clear it IS a threat not just in response to an "unfamiliar noise."
I am a believer in the term "low ready" because it keeps the gun ready but low enough that it is not pointed at an unidentified target.
And the real damage to the firearms community IMO comes from the people who encourage pointing loaded guns at unknown targets.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_...older_id=2534374302697057&bmUID=1239810760108
The solution to the problem.
Still got hands free for the shootzgun...
The solution to the problem.
Still got hands free for the shootzgun...
